Superman 242

[mrbrklyn]

So where there any long term consequence to superman 242? Or did they just ignore the events in the future?

[Jim Kelly]

It's debatable. In the letter columns, it was argued among fans just how much power Superman gave up. And if Superman's power is infinite, wouldn't that mean he's virtually as powerful as before?

You could argue that Superman wasn't as powerful as he had been in the Weisinger era and maybe that was due to the deal in 242. But since Denny O'Neil didn't have a lot to do with Superman after the Sand Superman Saga, the other writers probably weren't interested in picking the story up. The other main continuity story that O'Neil did was the lynx story with Billy Anders--another story that put a limit on Superman's powers.

At first I thought you meant "The Starry-Eyed Siren of Space," written by Cary Bates--but when I checked I realized that was in 243 not 242. Many people make the point that Superman seems to be at full strength in that issue. It ends with the promise that there could be more to this story in the future--but Starry and her Super-hubby never showed up again in the comics, as far as I know.

If it was the Byrne Superman, then one would assume that no matter how much power Superman gives up, he will get back more power in the future as he absorbs yellow sunlight. Walt Simonson did a version of the Sand Superman story--how did that one end? I'll have to dig it up and read it for myself, to refresh my memory.

[mrbrklyn]

It's debatable. In the letter columns, it was argued among fans just how much power Superman gave up. And if Superman's power is infinite, wouldn't that mean he's virtually as powerful as before?

You could argue that Superman wasn't as powerful as he had been in the Weisinger era and maybe that was due to the deal in 242. But since Denny O'Neil didn't have a lot to do with Superman after the Sand Superman Saga, the other writers probably weren't interested in picking the story up. The other main continuity story that O'Neil did was the lynx story with Billy Anders--another story that put a limit on Superman's powers.

At first I thought you meant "The Starry-Eyed Siren of Space," written by Cary Bates--but when I checked I realized that was in 243 not 242. Many people make the point that Superman seems to be at full strength in that issue. It ends with the promise that there could be more to this story in the future--but Starry and her Super-hubby never showed up again in the comics, as far as I know.

If it was the Byrne Superman, then one would assume that no matter how much power Superman gives up, he will get back more power in the future as he absorbs yellow sunlight. Walt Simonson did a version of the Sand Superman story--how did that one end? I'll have to dig it up and read it for myself, to refresh my memory.

So after that whole storyline, nearly a years worth of books, nothing becomes of it! Well... not only did they smash it up, but that next uissue Supers survies a supernova and time travels. Someone didn't like the O'Neil storyline

[Jim Kelly]

I wouldn't go that far. Extended storylines usually ended up back at the status quo at DC. Anyone who read DC back then had no reason to expect otherwise. What did Hal and Ollie achieve in their Search for America? What was Batman's relationship with the police after the Bat-Murderer story? Other changes that happened in 233 did stick around--Clark now worked for Morgan Edge, all green K on Earth was changed to iron--those aren't small things.

[Kuwagaton]

The Simonson remake didn't actually address that aspect of the original.

You can say it's a logical explanation to why Superman wasn't at Silver age strength, but that's not really explicit. He's stronger than O'neil intended and when it comes to other Kryptonians he wasn't notably lacking. But Kryptonite was gone for a while, so it's weird. I think Bates just sort of cherry picked between those ideas for how he could effectively do his stories.

[Jim Kelly]

Of course, it's possible that Bates had written "The Starry Eyed Siren of Space" before the O'Neil arc had ended. That would have been Cary's first Superman script for Schwartz--the other Superman stories he had done were for Weisinger and Boltinoff. And he didn't do another Superman story (as opposed to other features) for Schwartz until 249's Terra-Man story.

Meanwhile, O'Neil did do the Superman story in 244--I forgot about that one and can't remember what even happened in that story. Len Wein did his first Superman story for Schwartz in 246.

Then Maggin came on board with his very first Superman story (for anyone) in 247 and put a psychological limit on Superman. But even that story was never really followed up on.

As a reader, you file these facts away and take them into consideration in future stories. Maybe Superman is holding back because he doesn't want to interfere with the natural progress of humanity or maybe he can't do certain feats anymore because he doesn't have the power. If it's never made clear, you don't know.

One thing that did seem to happen with Schwartz vs. Weisinger is that Superman stayed on the Earth more often and didn't go away on as many missions in space (which seems to happen all the time in the Weisinger comics as that provides a convenient excuse for why Superman isn't around when Jimmy or Lois get in trouble).

[Kuwagaton]

That's a good point, publication is often tricky. I don't believe it was really established that Bates intentionally reversed the story, more like the irony of how Starry Eyed Siren kicks off has been cited frequently. There are examples of Bates being playfully defiant with what's veen handed to him, but those aren't so discreet.

The big power standards are time travel and planet moving I guess. Time travel was still a cakewalk. Moving planets is a debated feat because no matter how powerful some feel he should be, the act of moving a planet is a feat that a lot of people just find too ridiculous. But speaking of Wein, I definitely remember him having Superman move the entire population of Earth in an instant. Which is as crazy as anything I've ever seen.

[mrbrklyn]

The Simonson remake didn't actually address that aspect of the original.
.

what issues?

[Kuwagaton]

It was a standalone special where we basically got a post-crisis version of the story. The cool thing, besides Walt also drawing it, was that it had an ambiguous ending and apparently lead to a Sand Superman theory.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories..._theory_xpost/

[mrbrklyn]

Of course, it's possible that Bates had written "The Starry Eyed Siren of Space" before the O'Neil arc had ended. That would have been Cary's first Superman script for Schwartz--the other Superman stories he had done were for Weisinger and Boltinoff. And he didn't do another Superman story (as opposed to other features) for Schwartz until 249's Terra-Man story.

That Bates story wasn't even a good story. It was essentially a rip off of a Star Trek episode.