The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[Silver Fang]

I have a friend that used to say that DC was serious stuff and Marvel was soap opera. He wasn't that wrong, Marvel got the popularity because it catered to teens

I waited Jean to get back for years, I don't deserve to get Emma glued to Jean. It's like getting a cool gift and then getting punched

I don't see Bishop different from any x-men that commited mistakes and was forgiven. Jean didnt fall love on 616, but seems like feelings can carry on and she will be confused. That would be a interesting story to read, IMO

Agreed.
* Mystique's history is a mess, but she still dated Forge. Arguably Destiny was too good for her too. lol
* Magneto is a supremacist who committed numerous crimes, but he still dated Rogue.
* Wolverine has plenty of blood & atrocities on his claws, but gets women like James Bond.
* Sabretooth lol who may, or may not, have had in a relationship with Monet.
* Emma was no peach all her life, and she still got with Scott (after only originally trying just to spite his wife)

It's not new for shady or villainous characters getting with more heroic / good ones. My thing is all about how it's done, and where both characters are at the time. Lets see where Jean x Bishop go in 616 first, if these stories carry over in any way. Chances are, his issues with Hope & Cable will be addressed and may cause confusion for Jean, if she has or retained any feelings for him.

[TheCape]

Agreed.
* Mystique's history is a mess, but she still dated Forge. Arguably Destiny was too good for her too. lol
* Magneto is a supremacist who committed numerous crimes, but he still dated Rogue.
* Wolverine has plenty of blood & atrocities on his claws, but gets women like James Bond.
* Sabretooth lol, and he may, or may not, have had in a relationship with Monet.

It's not new for shady or villainous characters getting with more heroic / good ones. My thing is all about how it's done, and where both characters are at the time. Lets see where Jean x Bishop go in 616 first, if these stories carry over in any way. Chances are, his issues with Hope & Cable will be addressed and may cause confusion for Jean, if she has or retained any feelings for him.

Speaking for myself i think that most of those were awful, Magneto and Mystique should never had been accepted in the X-Men in the 2000s and after Way retconing of Logan past he should had comitted suicide at the end of Origins or have some retcon that absolve him for what happened there and i feel that Logan situation should also applied to Bishop in that regard, he either should die or have some retcon that takes the blame from him.

[Daedra]

I long for the day the animosity between the fans regarding Jean and Emma will be gone so I am all for a team up of these 2 characters, I think they could have some really cool dynamic if written properly.
Regarding the triangle between scott-jean-logan I consider it just a tool to prop and promote Logan so the sooner it's forgotten the better.

[WeaponX]

Loving someone and being in love with someone are not the same thing

Right because platonic love is so often spoken of that way. You’re just flat out ignoring cannon evidence. Not to mention the writers expressed intentions with the characters.

[WeaponX]

Jean let it very clear that she didn't wanted Logan and he accepted that.

As adults they worked together many times, because they could keep their pants on. So this talk of Jean keeping Logan witha arms range is weird as hell



Agree with it, break out of the rectangle. it define these characters too much, time to breathe new air

Yeah nothing says I have no romantic interest in you like kissing someone passionately over and over again.

[RachelGrey]

I long for the day the animosity between the fans regarding Jean and Emma will be gone so I am all for a team up of these 2 characters, I think they could have some really cool dynamic if written properly.
Regarding the triangle between scott-jean-logan I consider it just a tool to prop and promote Logan so the sooner it's forgotten the better.

Yep, I am team telepaths all the way. Jean and Emma on a book together, that's all I want. (plus Rachel too if possible!). Let Jean and Emma have an all women team that they co-lead.

[TheCape]

Right because platonic love is so often spoken of that way. You’re just flat out ignoring cannon evidence. Not to mention the writers expressed intentions with the characters.

I already answered before, but as i said, actions and words are more important for me than the narration of a panel that was trying to sound poetic, and based in their interactions, Jean was attracted to Logan at some point, but she didn't love him, none of her actions toward him had ever convinced me of the contrary.

[manymade1]

Lol, the X-Men really is a soap opera. It's funny how we all get sucked in more by the interpersonal drama between the teammates then other parts of the stories.

That's why I love them, honestly. The X-Men books are the most character driven books of the original Marvel comics.

Regarding the rectangle, it's pretty dumb. I never liked that Jean seemed to lead Logan on. I always saw it as an immature move on her part, as Scott would've done anything for her and was all around a better guy. It seems like they only had her go for Logan as a way of making Logan look cooler (Because Wolverine always has to be the coolest one). It also go's against her whole "nice girl" routine. It's part of the reason why I prefer Emma. She can be a b****, but at least she owns up to it.

[Silver Fang]

I already answered before, but as i said, actions and words are more important for me than the narration of a panel that was trying to sound poetic, and based in their interactions, Jean attracted to Logan at some point, but she didn't love him, none of her actions toward had ever convinced me of the contrary.

I agree. Word of God is great & all, but if they didn't convey it clearly, there's room for debate or even dismissal, by fans or subsequent writers.

Claremont shares his word on what he wanted or intended for some of his characters, but he never got around to making it clear, now everything is moot. In some cases, it's not. Mystique x Destiny were always intended as lovers, but due to certain laws, that couldn't be clarified. Now it can be, and has been. On the flip, Mystique was supposed to be Kurt's father. But Claremont didn't get around to that and laws still prohibiting homosexual ships getting clarified stood in his way, so that was out for a while/ And by the time things changed, Azazel was already retconned in. So much for that.

I love Cronet, and it's my OTP. But NOTHING about them was confirmed on panel. It was lots of teasing & beating around the bush with no answers or solidification. Bunn notes they were in love, but he never showed it on panel. So it's damn near moot. And should the ship ever come up again, which I doubt, there's plenty of room to rewrite the nature / status of what it is, or was.

A few writers, and JDW have noted that Deadpool isn't straight. But they ain't given him a male lover yet, so many aren't taking those statements seriously.

This happens all the time. Word of God is nice to hear, but if that's all we have, it can easily be ignored. Because we aren't being shown these supposed things in the work.

[TheCape]

That's why I love them, honestly. The X-Men books are the most character driven books of the original Marvel comics.

Regarding the rectangle, it's pretty dumb. I never liked that Jean seemed to lead Logan on. I always saw it as an immature move on her part, as Scott would've done anything for her and was all around a better guy. It seems like they only had her go for Logan as a way of making Logan look cooler (Because Wolverine always has to be the coolest one). It also go's against her whole "nice girl" routine. It's part of the reason why I prefer Emma. She can be a b****, but at least she owns up to it.

It was done because Claremont was piss for Scott abandoning to Maddie and Logan/Jean being a karmic punishment of some sort for him, is pretty dumb and nobody followed upon it except Claremont and all the 90s writers, including Larry Hama, the guy with the longest solo run on the character (and one of the most well regarded by his fans) had Logan and Jean in platonic terms, with Logan having feelings for her but accepting that she didn't want that with him and Jean treated him as a friend and teamate, but not a lover and that was the end of it....until Morrison.

[TheCape]

I agree. Word of God is great & all, but if they didn't convey it clearly, there's room for debate or even dismissal, by fans or subsequent writers.

Claremont shares his word on what he wanted or intended for some of his characters, but he never got around to making it clear, now everything is moot. In some cases, it's not. Mystique x Destiny were always intended as lovers, but due to certain laws, that couldn't be clarified. Now it can be, and has been. On the flip, Mystique was supposed to be Kurt's father. But Claremont didn't get around to that and laws still prohibiting homosexual ships getting clarified stood in his way, so that was out for a while/ And by the time things changed, Azazel was already retconned in. So much for that.

I love Cronet, and it's my OTP. But NOTHING about them was confirmed on panel. It was lots of teasing & beating around the bush with no answers or solidification. Bunn notes they were in love, but he never showed it on panel. So it's damn near moot. And should the ship ever come up again, which I doubt, there's plenty of room to rewrite the nature / status of what it is, or was.

A few writers, and JDW have noted that Deadpool isn't straight. But they ain't given him a male lover yet, so many aren't taking those statements seriously.

This happens all the time. Word of God is nice to hear, but if that's all we have, it can easily be ignored. Because we aren't being shown these supposed things in the work.

Creed was also intended to be Logan's dad, in fact he believed than that was the case for some time in universe, but it was revealed to be false, so you can add that to the list.

[spirit2011]

It was done because Claremont was piss for Scott abandoning to Maddie and Logan/Jean being a karmic punishment of some sort for him, is pretty dumb and nobody followed upon it except Claremont and all the 90s writers, including Larry Hama, the guy with the longest solo run on the character (and one of the most well regarded by his fans) had Logan and Jean in platonic terms, with Logan having feelings for her but accepting that she didn't want that with him and Jean treated him as a friend and teamate, but not a lover and that was the end of it....until Morrison.

Logan/Jean/Scott is the biggest trick devil did. It was barely there, then it simply wasn't. Morrison also closed the page on the triangle, even if he used a sensationalist way.

Yeah nothing says I have no romantic interest in you like kissing someone passionately over and over again.

she only kissed him once LOL

[Havok83]

It was done because Claremont was piss for Scott abandoning to Maddie and Logan/Jean being a karmic punishment of some sort for him, is pretty dumb and nobody followed upon it except Claremont and all the 90s writers, including Larry Hama, the guy with the longest solo run on the character (and one of the most well regarded by his fans) had Logan and Jean in platonic terms, with Logan having feelings for her but accepting that she didn't want that with him and Jean treated him as a friend and teamate, but not a lover and that was the end of it....until Morrison.

LOL...even Claremont didnt do anything with it when he had the chance. He wrote both Jean and Wolverine when he returned to the books in Revolution when Scott was dead. He even had a 6 month gap which would have explained her moving on. Nothing romantic about Jean and Logan in that run

Right because platonic love is so often spoken of that way. You’re just flat out ignoring cannon evidence. Not to mention the writers expressed intentions with the characters.

nah you are ignoring canonical evidence. Nothing about Jean's actions towards Wolverine suggest being in love with the man

[spirit2011]

I long for the day the animosity between the fans regarding Jean and Emma will be gone so I am all for a team up of these 2 characters, I think they could have some really cool dynamic if written properly.
Regarding the triangle between scott-jean-logan I consider it just a tool to prop and promote Logan so the sooner it's forgotten the better.

Not all female characters should be friends

Agreed.
* Mystique's history is a mess, but she still dated Forge. Arguably Destiny was too good for her too. lol
* Magneto is a supremacist who committed numerous crimes, but he still dated Rogue.
* Wolverine has plenty of blood & atrocities on his claws, but gets women like James Bond.
* Sabretooth lol who may, or may not, have had in a relationship with Monet.
* Emma was no peach all her life, and she still got with Scott (after only originally trying just to spite his wife)

It's not new for shady or villainous characters getting with more heroic / good ones. My thing is all about how it's done, and where both characters are at the time. Lets see where Jean x Bishop go in 616 first, if these stories carry over in any way. Chances are, his issues with Hope & Cable will be addressed and may cause confusion for Jean, if she has or retained any feelings for him.

While all those people have a story of doing bad things, Bishop was a good guy all his life until writer thought it would be cool get him going crazy after Hope. TpTb just threw away all the good things Bishop did because of a dump storyline and to prop up Hope.

Zac and Lonnie on reddit said that they can't guarantee Jean/Bishop and other things will carry to 616, but they are leaving things to be build on 616 if editors want. It would be a good story Jean feeling conflicted about her family and her would be boyfriend. X-men always forgive, so why not date Bishop?

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Though nothing on panel has confirmed that Jean does not feel that way about Logan last I checked...