The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[Disciple of Redd]

Blaming Emma for Scott choosing to sleep with her is exemplary of the common view of the character that makes me not want Cyclops near any character I care about.

Just toxic.

[Hizashi]

Blaming Emma for Scott choosing to sleep with her is exemplary of the common view of the character that makes me not want Cyclops near any character I care about.

Just toxic.

Who is blaming her? Quote them word for word.

[Striderblack01]

Blaming Emma for Scott choosing to sleep with her is exemplary of the common view of the character that makes me not want Cyclops near any character I care about.

Just toxic.

And carelessly blaming Scott for everything without proper examination is exemplary of the common view of the character that makes me want to defend the character that I care about.

Toxicity is everywhere.

Look, I'm not trying to absolve Scott - the dude is flawed. That's why I like him.
He deserves some criticism. But every time he screws up big, they always write some crazy understandable reason or circumstance as to why he did.
That's why I'm not comfortable with him being used as a complete scapegoat for everything that goes wrong.

I'm just pointing to those circumstances that tend to get lost in the sea of "Scott is trash" posts.

[spirit2011]

And carelessly blaming Scott for everything without proper examination is exemplary of the common view of the character that makes me want to defend the character that I care about.

Toxicity is everywhere.

He was the one married, Emma wasn't

[The Kid]

Keep Jean and Scott away from each other lol. Whether he gets back with Emma or Jean hooks up with Logan or someone else, Jott should be put on ice for a looooong time

[Celestialbodies]

And carelessly blaming Scott for everything without proper examination is exemplary of the common view of the character that makes me want to defend the character that I care about.

Toxicity is everywhere.

Look, I'm not trying to absolve Scott - the dude is flawed. That's why I like him.
He deserves some criticism. But every time he screws up big, they always write some crazy understandable reason or circumstance as to why he did.
That's why I'm not comfortable with him being used as a complete scapegoat for everything that goes wrong.

I'm just pointing to those circumstances that tend to get lost in the sea of "Scott is trash" posts.

Haven't read several pages but I think this highlights some readers frustrations, Scott is given a platform to explorer how his actions and feelings affect him and those around him. In ways his signifcant others usually aren't, while certainly not the characters fault, that's Marvel. He does benefit from these separations many times with their absence, limbo, or death used as angst.

Jean didn't put out and Scott was sexually frustrated. He had a midlife crisis and decided to end his marriage. According to Morrison the marriage was over before his run started. And Jean and Scott's relationship peaked in the DPS and ended. Scott matured as he got with Emma because they weren't looking through rose tinted glasses over their high school years.

The mental health thing has been discussed to death. It was all about sex

Emma's also not a therapist and he went to a sex therapist

Scott, was the one "not putting out" over of fear Jean would judge the person he had become, Emma ever the opportunist jumped at the chance to "counselor" dear Scott. By having mental sex with him dressed as Jean allowing him to do all the things he felt he could not with Jean. Only she as others mentioned developed real feelings for him.

Scott was looking for all the right answers in all the wrong places, Emma some amusement at Jean's expense.

Also as favorable as Morrison's run was to me, his views of Jean and Scott were never based on their history but his idea of what their relationship was. They actually experienced her resurrection, dealt his with his former marriage, the Maddie debacle by Marvel, Nathan, the Phoenix, got married, and raised Nathan in the future for 12 years. They'd experienced plenty together, were more than being reduced to the DPS, and its a bit rude to minimize these characters years of development to his singular run, at least imo.

[spirit2011]

I agree that sex was an issue, but it's wasn't the issue.

The abstention of sex was a symptom; Scott's inability to connect with himself, his wife, and his life was the root cause.
He absolutely was suffering from PTSD, depression, whatever you want to call it.
He clearly was in crisis.

Bad metaphor time:

On most days, I don't feel like getting punched in the face.
But, sometimes life puts me in a situation where I think "Somebody, please punch me in the face. It would be better than this."
Then say, somebody randomly does.

I may feel like that was exactly what I needed and maybe I wouldn't even press charges. Maybe I'd feel like that person was a friend, helping me out.
But that doesn't mean I wasn't assaulted.

So was Scott a victim?
Ultimately, I'm not sure. I know that he was wronged and that he doesn't feel like he was.

Interestingly, I also think that what started off as Emma's ploy unexpectedly revealed a real connection.
If there hadn't been a real connection, there would be no story here. Scott wouldn't have entertained the thought of Emma, and there would be no 'choice' for him to make.
But if Emma hadn't forced the issue (by taking advantage), the connection may not have been made either.
That's part of the reason why this is complex.

To say that "It was just about sex" is clearly wrong.

---
I don't agree that the marriage was dead already.
I truly believe that Scott & Jean are soul mates and they were going through a rough patch. They love each other above all else.
But people can love each other, want to be with each other, and still not work out. That's life, sometimes.

I don't know if they would've worked things out, but to say the relationship was dead is clearly wrong.
Especially since Jean's shadow clung to nearly every facet of Scemma, long after her death.

Scott was having problems but it wasn't PTSD, he was sad that he changed and could deal with the consequences to his relationship with Jean.

Scott himself said that he was cheating on Jean with Emma, because she offered him all he needed. Emma forced her hand, but Scott just went for it becauseit was what he needed and wanted.

Cyke went to therapy with a owman that dressed herself like a stripper, he should have known better

Sure it is a comic, the complexity was lost on Morrison way of writing.

Blaming Emma for Scott choosing to sleep with her is exemplary of the common view of the character that makes me not want Cyclops near any character I care about.

Just toxic.

Emma was trash, but she nothing to lose on the affair.

Even knowing it could hurt Jean, Scott continued with it.

Keep Jean and Scott away from each other lol. Whether he gets back with Emma or Jean hooks up with Logan or someone else, Jott should be put on ice for a looooong time

Agree. Especially if all writers gonna do is Scott apologizing and everything is alright

[phoenixzero23]

My god, So much drama.
The truth is simple Marvel just wanted to split Jean and Scott and chose the worst posible way to do it. they killed Jean and now they brought Jean back and killed Scott. That's it, they broke up 14 years ago and marvel has been clear that it was Cyclops fault, he even admited it in phoenix resurrection.

[Black Queen]

Keep Jean and Scott away from each other lol. Whether he gets back with Emma or Jean hooks up with Logan or someone else, Jott should be put on ice for a looooong time

Well,i think it's safe to say Scott not coming back in a while or getting back with Emma after he broke off with her

[Disciple of Redd]

Who is blaming her? Quote them word for word.

There are several implying he was her victim.

Granted, "Cyclops was Emma's victim" is probably how it will presented now that they are going back to Jott, but that reading of the story, denigrating Emma to minimize Scott's involvement, is gross, frankly.

As if the scapegoating that actually is in the story (Jean FORCED him to get with Emma) wasn't bad enough lol.

Keep Jean and Scott away from each other lol. Whether he gets back with Emma or Jean hooks up with Logan or someone else, Jott should be put on ice for a looooong time

This!

[Gray Lensman]

Haven't read several pages but I think this highlights some readers frustrations, Scott is given a platform to explorer how his actions and feelings affect him and those around him. In ways his signifcant others usually aren't, while certainly not the characters fault, that's Marvel. He does benefit from these separations many times with their absence, limbo, or death used as angst.

Jean deserves time to reflect and react - if Morrison had stayed she likely would have received it since IRC he wasn't planning on keeping her dead very long. Editorial strikes again.

[spirit2011]

Jean deserves time to reflect and react - if Morrison had stayed she likely would have received it since IRC he wasn't planning on keeping her dead very long. Editorial strikes again.

There is divergences about that. I'm pretty sure Morrison wanted a definitive death, like the one that should be DPS.

I don't know what Jean has to react and reflect after so much time

There are several implying he was her victim.

Granted, "Cyclops was Emma's victim" is probably how it will presented now that they are going back to Jott, but that reading of the story, denigrating Emma to minimize Scott's involvement, is gross, frankly.

As if the scapegoating that actually is in the story (Jean FORCED him to get with Emma) wasn't bad enough lol.
!

Scott always has a ease way out

[PsychoEFrost]

I know certain fans want to paint Scott as evil incarnate and everything that he does is pure liquid malevolence, especially towards Jean, but Emma was MUCH more to blame in what happened. To say otherwise completely ignores all of the context of what happened.

[spirit2011]

I know certain fans want to paint Scott as evil incarnate and everything that he does is pure liquid malevolence, especially towards Jean, but Emma was MUCH more to blame in what happened. To say otherwise completely ignores all of the context of what happened.

I don't think anyone is ignoring what happened when put the majority of blame on Scott. He is far away from being innocent on this affair
He was liking it, he wasn't doing anything to stop it

Haven't read several pages but I think this highlights some readers frustrations, Scott is given a platform to explorer how his actions and feelings affect him and those around him. In ways his signifcant others usually aren't, while certainly not the characters fault, that's Marvel. He does benefit from these separations many times with their absence, limbo, or death used as angst.
.

Scott became the mR Angsty, for me it is almost his defining trait

[lancer]

Jean deserves time to reflect and react - if Morrison had stayed she likely would have received it since IRC he wasn't planning on keeping her dead very long. Editorial strikes again.

Not something I've ever read from Morrison. Just people posting it like it's fact. Sort of like saying Quesada ordered him to kill her. I know I don't buy that one. Perhaps he might have brought her back, but I don't think it would have been as an X Man. He had evolved her beyond that. Maybe in some cosmic role.

Of course, once he was gone someone else could have gone a different route. Wasn't going to be Whedon, he loved Morrison's run. And my guess is wanted to play with what he left. I know I READ Mike Carey say he'd like to do it except he didn't want to touch Morrison's story and how great he thought it had been.

Still, it was over 10 years and multiple writers. Others might have wanted to bring her back and editorial nixed it. Grant Morrison, though, Jean isn't going to come back and reflect and perhaps Jott can work things over. Jott is done, I saw interviews where Morrison said this.