The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[Hizashi]

I don't see anything modern about Scott and Emma, that is more a Man going thought his middle age crisis.

Just ak Quesada why Jean didn't came back: because Scott was dating Emma and people were liking that.

Jean who?

That’s him, he can only speak for himself. I have argued, and so have others, that we could’ve had interesting stories with Jean around the last few years, even the Cyke fans who wanted Jott over and done didn’t want her killed.

[AHRNIHAL]

Logan died and storm continued to have her own stories. Really awful stuff



Jean got cosmic since phoenix. Rider has a good story with Gamora

Storm was relegated further,that's what happened.

[AHRNIHAL]

What do you mean by support exactly?

Support her to eat another sun apparently & fight the shi'ar saying she was possessed.

[Disciple of Redd]

Your assertion doesn’t prove causation, and the quote from Morrison doesn’t either. The only thing that Jean’s death “allowed” was Scott being with Emma; if Jean’s presence wouldn’t have affected Scott’s plot, then she wasn’t killed for him. You’re reading what you want to read.

You’ve actually asserted that Scott is what held Jean back but that can’t be simultaneously true with the idea that her presence would’ve prevented him from being the lead that he was for the last few years. Either they both held each other back or neither one of them held the other back.

When did I say Jean Grey's presence would do anything?

I said Jean Grey was killed because they wanted to propel Scott based on that and didn't want her with a different character. So has the writer and at least one dude who was EIC. Then there's the stories themselves that present that idea.

You're free to post "they held each other back or neither one of them held the other back" or anything else you want to post. That won't change the fact that Jean Grey was killed off to drive Cyclops' narrative.

[spirit2011]

Just because Scott’s words weren’t good enough for you doesn’t mean he didn’t talk. Jean explained things to him and they were interrupted before they could get any further.

That completely contradicts what Morrison was trying to do

“Women” in this case probably refers to the handful he’s been with, and it doesn’t mean a majority; he has unique qualities that might be generically attractive to women.

sure, bcause women like emotionally distant and insecure men. Morrison was doinga lot of projection of his own wishes into Scott.
He never talked how Jean was attractive and always had a lot of suitors. It wasn't her story that he was interested to tell, so he killed her

X-Force was formed under serious consequences; maybe Jean would’ve stopped him, but that’s not the same thing
What do you mean by support exactly?

Say that he knows that she can do it, if she needs some help he will be there. things like these

[Hizashi]

When did I say Jean Grey's presence would do anything?

I said Jean Grey was killed because they wanted to propel Scott based on that and didn't want her with a different character. So has the writer and at least one dude who was EIC. Then there's the stories themselves that present that idea.

You're free to post "they held each other back or neither one of them held the other back" or anything else you want to post. That won't change the fact that Jean Grey was killed off to drive Cyclops' narrative.

Except that they didn’t propel Scott’s narrative based on “Jean’s dead”, and the comics don’t support that; his characterization was centered around the extinction crisis and the Phoenix Force, not Jean. His personal life is a different matter, but his character trajectory didn’t benefit from Jean’s death.

What have editors said exactly?

[PrezValentine]

he didn't really talked with her. He was emotionally and phisically distant of Jean. scott refused to talk about what was going on with him.

The way Morrison wrote Jean later doesn't help her case. New X-Men #122, the issue where Scott voices his concerns about the Phoenix. The flow of the conversation is actually very funny. Jean starts talking about how amazing Charles' notes are, and Scott mentions the Phoenix, she says she's not losing control. She segues into what Xavier said about "not being ashamed of being mutants", Scott says he knows and says that the pace they're doing things might frighten the flatscans. Jean then says "well, Scott, if you could revise your priorities, you'd know we have bigger priorities than your fears, like the fact that Charles is dying".

That's pretty much emotional manipulation 101. She was fine talking about inane stuff like "Xavier's notes for the school curriculum", but the moment Scott voices his own concerns, they suddenly have other priorities and she throws in his face that he doesn't have his priorities straight.

Of course, there's that glorious page where Scott and Emma watch her kissing Logan, 5 issues earlier, and right after the Annual where Emma was rejected by Scott, but that's besides the point.

[Jokerz79]

Rectangle? I always saw this as a triangle (Jean, Scott, and Emma) with a Outsider looking in thinking he made some grand sacrifice so she could be happy which if being with the other guy makes her happy that should be a clue Sherlock and he was never really part of the equation I think Warren was more than Logan. I mean Jean has a friendship and attraction to Logan but in 616 that's about it. Where Logan envision a grand love story with Jean I see that kind of delusional guy who declares the girl loves him and he has proof a love letter and pulls it out and it's a Christmas Card that ends with Love Jean.

[TheCape]

Man i had to say, that Jean and Scott really hit the emotional bottom in Morrison, they were so mess up that they went to Logan at all people for some sort of comfort, the only difference is that Scott didn't kiss Logan... hmmm.... maybe Morrison should have explore that instead

[Hizashi]

That completely contradicts what Morrison was trying to do

sure, bcause women like emotionally distant and insecure men. Morrison was doinga lot of projection of his own wishes into Scott.
He never talked how Jean was attractive and always had a lot of suitors. It wasn't her story that he was interested to tell, so he killed her


Say that he knows that she can do it, if she needs some help he will be there. things like these

How does it contradict what he was trying to do? Please explain.

Go ahead and only focus on Scott’s lesser qualities, that’ll lend you plenty of credibility in this argument. Her death happened in the penultimate arc of his run, she was involved in the run. Marvel chose not to do anything with Jean later, that’s on them not Morrison or Scott. Just because he didn’t extoll the virtues of Jean doesn’t mean she’s superfluous.

Their marriage was strained, that was the point of the story. He couldn’t be supportive because they were both straining their marriage. I’ve given both characters equal consideration - you refuse to do so.

[spirit2011]

That’s him, he can only speak for himself. I have argued, and so have others, that we could’ve had interesting stories with Jean around the last few years, even the Cyke fans who wanted Jott over and done didn’t want her killed.

Quesada was the editor in chief for 12 years, so he made sure to only hire writers that have the same vision that he had about Scott and Jean.

I'm pretty sure it would be interesting having Jean alive for 14 years. But I also would like to know how Cyclops fans would react to Jean having a new relationship, they didn't even like jean/longan on renew your vows and that is a cheap AU.

For toher side maybe it was better have her death for a while, because I'm pretty sure her character would have been destroyed to help Emma/Cyclops

The way Morrison wrote Jean later doesn't help her case. New X-Men #122, the issue where Scott voices his concerns about the Phoenix. The flow of the conversation is actually very funny. Jean starts talking about how amazing Charles' notes are, and Scott mentions the Phoenix, she says she's not losing control. She segues into what Xavier said about "not being ashamed of being mutants", Scott says he knows and says that the pace they're doing things might frighten the flatscans. Jean then says "well, Scott, if you could revise your priorities, you'd know we have bigger priorities than your fears, like the fact that Charles is dying".

That's pretty much emotional manipulation 101. She was fine talking about inane stuff like "Xavier's notes for the school curriculum", but the moment Scott voices his own concerns, they suddenly have other priorities and she throws in his face that he doesn't have his priorities straight.

Of course, there's that glorious page where Scott and Emma watch her kissing Logan, 5 issues earlier, and right after the Annual where Emma was rejected by Scott, but that's besides the point.

I don't know what kissing Logan has anything to do with it, or Scott refusing Emma( he didn't refused at all or they wouldn't have a affair)

There is nothing of mental manipulation. I think that Jean was probably tired of Scott projecting his own insecurities on her

[TheCape]

Rectangle? I always saw this as a triangle (Jean, Scott, and Emma) with a Outsider looking in thinking he made some grand sacrifice so she could be happy which if being with the other guy makes her happy that should be a clue Sherlock and he was never really part of the equation I think Warren was more than Logan. I mean Jean has a friendship and attraction to Logan but in 616 that's about it. Where Logan envision a grand love story with Jean I see that kind of delusional guy who declares the girl loves him and he has proof a love letter and pulls it out and it's a Christmas Card that ends with Love Jean.

There was a triangle between Jean, Scott and Logan, but it was ended, twice, first by Nicieza in the 90s during the wedding and then by Morrison again in 2001, is the fandom that refuse to let it go.

[Jokerz79]

There was a triangle between Jean, Scott and Logan, but it was ended, twice, first by Nicieza in the 90s during the wedding and then by Morrison again in 2001, is the fandom that refuse to let it go.

Outside of one consensual kiss and one not in the late 80's/90's I think of any time Jean showed more depth of emotions for Logan than Storm or Professor-X. I considered Psylocke with Scott more of a triangle than Logan with Jean.

[spirit2011]

Outside of one consensual kiss and one not in the late 80's/90's I think of any time Jean showed more depth of emotions for Logan than Storm or Professor-X. I considered Psylocke with Scott more of a triangle than Logan with Jean.

It was more of a attraction on Jean part, but nothing really serious. she e never really had to choose between Scott or Logan, she always loved Scott without questions about it.

[AHRNIHAL]

There is nothing of mental manipulation. I think that Jean was probably tired of Scott projecting his own insecurities on her

Just showing who's the problem in their relationship.