The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[Disciple of Redd]

I really think he was very insecure because of Jean powers and personality

Yes and that is why it makes sense to have the next Jean-related ship involve a more confident character. For one, we've already read about Jean holding back, dealing with emotional insecurity, and dying to drive an insecure character's story and two, because having her as part of a narrative that is radically different from the one that killed her will be fun!

She could get up to anything!

[bell]

Logan and Jean can happen while Scott is alive it's just that I don't want Marvel to wait until he is to get them together, as it could take years for that to happen, and that would be wasted time imho...wasted time of when Jean and Logan could be happy together...then once Scott came back Jean and Logan would still be together, maybe do a compare and contrast thing to how it was with Scott and Maddy when Jean came back...or something like that...though this time with Jean she doesn't abandon ship like Scott did way back when...

Look this is what is going to happen, Jean and logan will be together then marvel will break them up making it all jeans fault because she wants logan to open up more or some bs. Then they will make scott take her back that will be some epic bs but hey drama is drama no shipping is ever safe in the hands of marvel. Kind of glad dc learned that.

[phoenixzero23]

this was a great year for Jean and Scott. I really like that after everything that has been done to the relationship it hasn't died. I want to be hopeful, they are the X-couple after all. maybe one day they can solve their problems and get back together. I would really like for that to happen.
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[bell]

Either jean will be phoenix in 5th issue or logan will be "Enemy of the state" in 6th.Don't forget that.

Nahhh logan is to pure to be a enemy, he is more like a kitten lately then anything else. It be put all on jean like with kitty

[spirit2011]

Your assertions here are missing some important information and context.

Maddie was intended to be the woman that Scott retired with - and you take Morrison's intentions very seriously, so why ignore that? Besides, she didn't take a hit for Scott - she took one because editorial wanted Jott back. The characters hurt the most by this example are Maddie, yes, but also Scott who was turned into a horrible person to many for a long time. X-Factor largely corrected this, it seems, and I intend to read that run myself just as soon as I can find the time.

Yes, I know very well the intentions of scott/maddie relationship.
The thing is that it was made to save Scott, because he was the one married to Maddie and that had a son with her.

Emma did not go crazy because of or for Scott - Marvel decided to kill Scott but realized that the Inhumans were starting to look like the villains they are/were, so Emma had to be the villain. They took the lazy route and made her crazy, but anyone with energy to analyze a little deeper can see that Emma is the heroine of that entire narrative - excepting the parts where they write everyone out of character and contradictory to comic books immediately preceding them.

They also pinned all the Scott is Hittler on her too. It's never not on character to Emma kill people, sh eis a anti-hero at her best

And the last one, we've conversed about at length, but it bears repeating - there's no causation between Jean's death and Scott's character narrative afterwards. Scemma is the only thing that arguably depended on Jean's death, depending on who you ask.

Quesada didn't thought Scemma could survive with Jean alive. he didn't even thought Jean was worth of her own stories

[PsychoEFrost]

Yes, I know very well the intentions of scott/maddie relationship.
The thing is that it was made to save Scott, because he was the one married to Maddie and that had a son with her.

They also pinned all the Scott is Hittler on her too. It's never not on character to Emma kill people, sh eis a anti-hero at her best

Quesada didn't thought Scemma could survive with Jean alive. he didn't even thought Jean was worth of her own stories

Except that you completely ignore that she would never use Sentinels, or wouldn't blatantly attack everyone in the open while she has the advantage. What she did was cosmically stupid just so IvX could have a flashy final battle.

[AHRNIHAL]

this was a great year for Jean and Scott. I really like that after everything that has been done to the relationship it hasn't died. I want to be hopeful, they are the X-couple after all. maybe one day they can't solve their problems and get back together. I would really like for that to happen.
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Some pages ago aren't you cheering for jean & logan?Get a grip man.

[TheCape]

Yep, yep and yep. Jean was certainly never a regular in WOLVERINE, but there were a bunch of individual appearances. There is no romantic tension there. After XTINCTION, AOA aside, it's pretty much dead. It's why it was so overrated. It's a couple of isolated incidents with no followup. First time they were alone, after XTINCTION, the scene should have been filled with romantic tension. There is none because it was never any kind of ongoing triangle where anyone thinks Logan has a chance.

Much as I disliked Morrison's X Men, if you are going to insist on a Jean/Logan kiss where she is at least an active participant(I read it as she initiated it), I found the way Morrison handled it palatable.
Because, as you pointed out, the entire scene is about Scott. It's about how distraught Jean is, not how hot she is for Logan. Mind you, that only carries so far. She slept with Logan, distraught or not, I'd be just as critical of her as I have been Scott.

I was certainly never for Jogan. However, I would buy it more than Scemma. Logan and Jean have/had, if nothing else, a real friendship as a foundation. Something to build on. And the most diehard Jott fan can't deny that she was at least attracted to him. They don't have to like it, I didn't. Still, I think the evidence shows it was there, retconned in though it might be.

Funny enougth Hama sort of mocked the idea in his run, in Wolverine #51, Jubilee saw Logan in a cheap motel with a woman and runs away when it realized that it was Jean, next page is revealed that the woman was Mystique disguised as Jean to mess with Logan and Jubilee returns to the mansion to find out that Jean has been jogging there foe a quite a while and hug her in relief, it was a pretty funny moment .

I think that Morrison was really the time for Jogan to happen if it actually would (not something that i personally wanted, but i could see how), right now thougth, is pretty obvious that Marvel doesn't have much interest on it.

[AHRNIHAL]

Except that you completely ignore that she would never use Sentinels, or wouldn't blatantly attack everyone in the open while she has the advantage. What she did was cosmically stupid just so IvX could have a flashy final battle.

There's no necessity to discuss it with him.I decided to just ignore him.Maybe you can too.

[AHRNIHAL]

Funny enougth Hama sort of mocked the idea in his run, in Wolverine #51, Jubilee saw Logan in a cheap motel with a woman and runs away when it realized that it was Jean, next page is revealed that the woman was Mystique disguised as Jean to mess with Logan and Jubilee returns to the mansion to find out that Jean has been jogging there foe a quite a while and hug her in relief, it was a pretty funny moment .

I think that Morrison was really the time for Jogan to happen if it actually would (not something that i personally wanted, but i could see how), right now thougth, is pretty obvious that Marvel doesn't have much interest on it.

How so?????

[spirit2011]

Yes and that is why it makes sense to have the next Jean-related ship involve a more confident character. For one, we've already read about Jean holding back, dealing with emotional insecurity, and dying to drive an insecure character's story and two, because having her as part of a narrative that is radically different from the one that killed her will be fun!

She could get up to anything!

Having the same relationship, will only result in having the same mistakes.

I really want to feel excite about a relationship, something new and exciting!

[phoenixzero23]

Some pages ago aren't you cheering for jean & logan?Get a grip man.

I like Jott, it's my OTP but that doesn't mean i hate Jean for dating other people. Specially when that's the most probable thing to happen, i would gain nothing by hating or negating that fact

[Hizashi]

Emma is ok. She needs a writer to give her some agency, and that whole "I dress scantily to disarm men" thing is a weak excuse for cheesecake, but she has potential as a serious character.

I don't take any claims to liking Jott seriously and think fandom of that ship is mostly pretty one-sided. I find it mostly to be about the appearance of one part of the duo and not so much about either of the characters/personalities involved. As I said earlier, I think you could swap out Jean for literally any female character and most would be fine. Which is how you get "fans of both" Jott and Scemma lol.

As for Jean herself, that's my A1 comic character. Not just X-Men, but out of ALL comics related heroes.

I just wish they'd more consistently and prolongedly allow her do something besides:

1. Cheer on her boyfriend
2. Cheer on her boyfriend from the grave
3. Discover annoying destiny kids

She's got waaay more potential as a character than that.

And for the love of god, let her wear her rightfully-earned codename and Phoenix costumes. Even if the Phoenix is "gone*".


*being used by Cyclops/Wolverine/Avengers/Thor/whoever because their mythology isn't interesting.

There's very little for me to engage with here - but this description you've painted of Jean makes me wonder how she became your favorite character. She's easily replaced in one of the most iconic romances in comics, she's consistently only been a cheerleader who had destiny's children - but she has so much potential?

[bell]

My god when did the x men books became only about romance o.o

[Disciple of Redd]

he didn't even thought Jean was worth of her own stories

I wish I could find that old Q&A with the quote that pretty much said this. Wish the opinion wasn't still so prevalent like 10 years later.