The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[Striderblack01]

I guess I kinda am, but for the record, I like Emma and i liked Scott with her.

(I'm an odd duck that liked both Jott & Scemma)

There's something that always seems to get swept under the rug amidst all the lazy and predictable Scott-bashing.
Something that, judging by the casual "Scott is a dirty cheater" talk, doesn't seem have the weight it deserves.

During Morrison's run, Scott was going through mental health issues. He was offered help, and that person took advantage of him.

But Strider, Scott could've resisted more!

Really?! Is that really the barometer we're going to use to judge him by? He could've resisted more??
That's a lame and, dare I say it, kinda victim blame-y.

I can already see the #triggered responses now, and I get it. It's nigh impossible to view Scott Summers as the victim in this situation, I agree.
Especially since he doesn't carry himself as victim, and obviously doesn't blame Emma. It's a complex situation.
Despite his feelings on the matter, Scott ultimately was taken advantage of, and he was aggrieved - Emma made things worse for his marriage.

Imagine if you were going through issues, trying to work through some really big identity, relationship, and life things, and kinda drowning.
Imagine you were then doggedly offered therapy, and the person 'helping' you did that.
Just pushed past all your reluctance, uncertainty, and vulnerability and put the moves on you.
All the while dressing it up as help. The help you so desperately needed.

I mean, unethical doesn't begin to cover it - this was villainous.

Now, I don't want to judge Emma too harshly. She had genuine feelings for Scott, and this was a bit of a turning point for her.
But Mama was a bad girl, and Mama did a bad thing.
Even if for seemingly well intentioned reasons.

I also can't help but think that if the genders were reversed, if this was a male 'therapist' taking advantage of a female 'patient', this board would've unanimously lost it's collective $%#*!
If say, Charles had done something like that to Moira, I don't think anybody here would be blaming her.

[ExodusCloak]

I guess I kinda am, but for the record, I like Emma and i liked Scott with her.

(I'm an odd duck that liked both Jott & Scemma)

There's something that always seems to get swept under the rug amidst all the lazy and predictable Scott-bashing.
Something that, judging by the casual "Scott is a dirty cheater" talk, doesn't seem have the weight it deserves.

During Morrison's run, Scott was going through mental health issues. He was offered help, and that person took advantage of him.

But Strider, Scott could've resisted more!

Really?! Is that really the barometer we're going to use to judge him by? He could've resisted more??
That's a lame and, dare I say it, kinda victim blame-y.

I can already see the #triggered responses now, and I get it. It's nigh impossible to view Scott Summers as the victim in this situation, I agree.
Especially since he doesn't carry himself as victim, and obviously doesn't blame Emma. It's a complex situation.
Despite his feelings on the matter, Scott ultimately he was taken advantage of, and he was aggrieved - Emma made things worse for his marriage.

Imagine if you were going through issues, trying to work through some really big identity, relationship, and life things, and kinda drowning.
Imagine you were then doggedly offered therapy, and the person 'helping' you did that.
Just pushed past all your reluctance, uncertainty, and vulnerability and put the moves on you.
All the while dressing it up as help. The help you so desperately needed.

I mean, unethical doesn't begin to cover it - this was villainous.

Now, I don't want to judge Emma too harshly. She had genuine feelings for Scott, and this was a bit of a turning point for her.
But Mama was a bad girl, and Mama did a bad thing.
Even if for seemingly well intentioned reasons.

I also can't help but think that if the genders were reversed, if this was a male 'therapist' taking advantage of a female 'patient', this board would've unanimously lost it's collective $%#*!
If say, Charles had done something like that to Moira, I don't think anybody here would be blaming her.

Jean didn't put out and Scott was sexually frustrated. He had a midlife crisis and decided to end his marriage. According to Morrison the marriage was over before his run started. And Jean and Scott's relationship peaked in the DPS and ended. Scott matured as he got with Emma because they weren't looking through rose tinted glasses over their high school years.

The mental health thing has been discussed to death. It was all about sex

Emma's also not a therapist and he went to a sex therapist

[Hizashi]

There is an element of Emma taking advantage of the situation, acknowledged in-story; however, Scott was an active participant, that can't be denied. Did the story ever assert that they were mutually abstaining from sex?

Scott is always viewing the world through rose-tinted glasses.

[anyajenkins]

I believe the story said Scott was the one who 'won't put out.' I imagine it was supposed to symbolize how disconnected he was or something...

[Hizashi]

I believe the story said Scott was the one who 'won't put out.' I imagine it was supposed to symbolize how disconnected he was or something...

Yeah, that's what I remember too. I think it was more to illustrate how disconnected Scott and Jean were to each other.

[TheCape]

Emma was skevy and manipulative, if i remember correctly she started the adventure to screw with Jean and in the process the fool fell for her own plan. To an extent you could say that she did take advantage of his naivetee, but Scott did realized that he was doing something wrong and didn't stopped, not because he couldn't but because he didn't want to, his moral compass wasn't that broken.

That's how i choose to see it, anyway. Feel free to disagreed.

[AHRNIHAL]

Emma was skevy and manipulative, if i remember correctly she started the adventure to screw with Jean and in the process the fool fell for her own plan. To an extent you could say that she did take advantage of his naivetee, but Scott did realized that he was doing something wrong and didn't stopped, not because he couldn't but because he didn't want to, his moral compass wasn't that broken.

That's how i choose to see it, anyway. Feel free to disagreed.

Agreed.
10CHAR.

[spirit2011]

Emma was skevy and manipulative, if i remember correctly she started the adventure to screw with Jean and in the process the fool fell for her own plan. To an extent you could say that she did take advantage of his naivetee, but Scott did realized that he was doing something wrong and didn't stopped, not because he couldn't but because he didn't want to, his moral compass wasn't that broken.

That's how i choose to see it, anyway. Feel free to disagreed.

That is how I see it. Scott knew it was wrng but continue to do because he wanted. He wasn't a victim

[PsychoEFrost]

That is how I see it. Scott knew it was wrng but continue to do because he wanted. He wasn't a victim

If you ignore that Scott was suffering from PTSD, and therefore cannot consent maybe...

[spirit2011]

If you ignore that Scott was suffering from PTSD, and therefore cannot consent maybe...

He wasn't, he was just afraid of Jean getting to know New Scott. His problems were related to sex, not PTSD

[Hizashi]

He wasn't, he was just afraid of Jean getting to know New Scott. His problems were related to sex, not PTSD

I think this level of analysis isn't deep enough - sure, the problems manifested most obviously in terms of Scott and Jean's physical relationship, but their issues weren't completely about sex. And his issues with that were certainly written as a result of his PTSD from his Apocalypse possession - in real-life, those who suffer from PTSD have multiple aspects of their lives affected by it and that can in many cases include sex.

[bell]

Jean didn't put out and Scott was sexually frustrated. He had a midlife crisis and decided to end his marriage. According to Morrison the marriage was over before his run started. And Jean and Scott's relationship peaked in the DPS and ended. Scott matured as he got with Emma because they weren't looking through rose tinted glasses over their high school years.

The mental health thing has been discussed to death. It was all about sex

Emma's also not a therapist and he went to a sex therapist

Actually it was Scott who didnt want to have sex

[bell]

I believe the story said Scott was the one who 'won't put out.' I imagine it was supposed to symbolize how disconnected he was or something...

This 10chara

[Striderblack01]

I agree that sex was an issue, but it's wasn't the issue.

The abstention of sex was a symptom; Scott's inability to connect with himself, his wife, and his life was the root cause.
He absolutely was suffering from PTSD, depression, whatever you want to call it.
He clearly was in crisis.

Bad metaphor time:

On most days, I don't feel like getting punched in the face.
But, sometimes life puts me in a situation where I think "Somebody, please punch me in the face. It would be better than this."
Then say, somebody randomly does.

I may feel like that was exactly what I needed and maybe I wouldn't even press charges. Maybe I'd feel like that person was a friend, helping me out.
But that doesn't mean I wasn't assaulted.

So was Scott a victim?
Ultimately, I'm not sure. I know that he was wronged and that he doesn't feel like he was.

Interestingly, I also think that what started off as Emma's ploy unexpectedly revealed a real connection.
If there hadn't been a real connection, there would be no story here. Scott wouldn't have entertained the thought of Emma, and there would be no 'choice' for him to make.
But if Emma hadn't forced the issue (by taking advantage), the connection may not have been made either.
That's part of the reason why this is complex.

To say that "It was just about sex" is clearly wrong.

---
I don't agree that the marriage was dead already.
I truly believe that Scott & Jean are soul mates and they were going through a rough patch. They love each other above all else.
But people can love each other, want to be with each other, and still not work out. That's life, sometimes.

I don't know if they would've worked things out, but to say the relationship was dead is clearly wrong.
Especially since Jean's shadow clung to nearly every facet of Scemma, long after her death.

[PsychoEFrost]

I agree that sex was an issue, but it's wasn't the issue.

The abstention of sex was a symptom; Scott's inability to connect with himself, his wife, and his life was the root cause.
He absolutely was suffering from PTSD, depression, whatever you want to call it.
He clearly was in crisis.

Bad metaphor time:

On most days, I don't feel like getting punched in the face.
But, sometimes life puts me in a situation where I think "Somebody, please punch me in the face. It would be better than this."
Then say, somebody randomly does.

I may feel like that was exactly what I needed and maybe I wouldn't even press charges. Maybe I'd feel like that person was friend, helping me out.
But that doesn't mean I wasn't assaulted.

So was Scott a victim?
Ultimately, I'm not sure. I know that he was wronged and that he doesn't feel like he was.

Interestingly, I also think that what started off as Emma's ploy unexpectedly revealed a real connection.
If there hadn't been a real connection, there would be no story here. Scott wouldn't have entertained the thought of Emma, and there would be no 'choice' for him to make.
But if Emma hadn't forced the issue (by taking advantage), the connection may not have been made either.
That's part of the reason why this is complex.

---
I don't agree that the marriage was dead already.
I truly believe that Scott & Jean are soul mates and they were going through a rough patch. They love each other above all else.
But people can love each other, want to be with each other, and still not work out. That's life, sometimes.

I don't know if they would've worked things out, but to say the relationship was dead is clearly wrong.
Especially since Jean's shadow clung to nearly every facet of Scemma, long after her death.

I can agree with this. The issue is far more complex than can be explained in a comic book.