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  1. #1561
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    Should this thread actually be a pentagon? Namor was essentially the Logan of the Scemma pairing. Namor's past relationship with Emma was retconned in like Jean's attraction to Logan. I wondered if it annoyed Emma that Scott wasn't as jealous of Namor's flirtation with Emma as Logan's flirtation with Jean. Was it supposed to be irony/karma that Emma ultimately consummated her affair with Namor (psychically, just like Scott had done before)?

  2. #1562
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightw1ng View Post
    Should this thread actually be a pentagon? Namor was essentially the Logan of the Scemma pairing. Namor's past relationship with Emma was retconned in like Jean's attraction to Logan. I wondered if it annoyed Emma that Scott wasn't as jealous of Namor's flirtation with Emma as Logan's flirtation with Jean. Was it supposed to be irony/karma that Emma ultimately consummated her affair with Namor (psychically, just like Scott had done before)?
    Most likely Marvel had just gotten sick of writing the Scott/Emma pairing and needed some in story excuse to end it. I doubt they had any intention of exploring the Namor angle in depth, but they didn't really have much chemistry in any event. It seems like the affair was just cooked up so that once again Scott wouldn't be at fault, although there's still the little matter of him going all Wayne Brady on Emma later in the story which is indefensible from any perspective.

  3. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightw1ng View Post
    Should this thread actually be a pentagon? Namor was essentially the Logan of the Scemma pairing. Namor's past relationship with Emma was retconned in like Jean's attraction to Logan. I wondered if it annoyed Emma that Scott wasn't as jealous of Namor's flirtation with Emma as Logan's flirtation with Jean. Was it supposed to be irony/karma that Emma ultimately consummated her affair with Namor (psychically, just like Scott had done before)?
    Scemma was already crumbling by the time AvX came around. Scott was completely cold towards Emma's recovery from losing the arm, didn't give two shits about Unit making her have sex with Namor in the snow (Unit even says it usually didn't work that well) and Gillen didn't believe they should keep being a couple as, in his vision, Emma should stab Scott in the back and take everything from him, since "she's nothing but her pride". I wouldn't compare Namor to Logan BC, essentially, Scott's feelings for Emma had all but faded away at that point.
    Last edited by PrezValentine; 12-03-2018 at 05:31 AM.

  4. #1564
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Semi-related question that might be more appropriate for their respective appreciation thread but here I go anyhow:

    Not asking for specific numbers BUT..... how do folks view the ages of Scott, Jean and Emma? I'm not asking about Logan because he ancient.

    So, I fully recognize the absurdity of the sliding timescale and additionally the dramatic shift in the likely intention around Emma Frost when she was CREATED vs where she is NOW..... BUT....

    I've always felt that Jean was the "hot senior" of the O5, (Hank being closest to her age) to the "junior" level boys (Warren & Scott), with Bobbers being youngest (freshmen level, if applying educational parallels) which left Emma (in my mind) at a college level (sophomore maybe?) when trying to recruit Kitty, but also young enough to still be relatively malleable to the whims of her much older Hellfire superiors.

  5. #1565
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightw1ng View Post
    Should this thread actually be a pentagon? Namor was essentially the Logan of the Scemma pairing. Namor's past relationship with Emma was retconned in like Jean's attraction to Logan. I wondered if it annoyed Emma that Scott wasn't as jealous of Namor's flirtation with Emma as Logan's flirtation with Jean. Was it supposed to be irony/karma that Emma ultimately consummated her affair with Namor (psychically, just like Scott had done before)?
    No. No one's clamoring for Namor to be added to this mess nor will he likely factor in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Semi-related question that might be more appropriate for their respective appreciation thread but here I go anyhow:

    Not asking for specific numbers BUT..... how do folks view the ages of Scott, Jean and Emma? I'm not asking about Logan because he ancient.

    So, I fully recognize the absurdity of the sliding timescale and additionally the dramatic shift in the likely intention around Emma Frost when she was CREATED vs where she is NOW..... BUT....

    I've always felt that Jean was the "hot senior" of the O5, (Hank being closest to her age) to the "junior" level boys (Warren & Scott), with Bobbers being youngest (freshmen level, if applying educational parallels) which left Emma (in my mind) at a college level (sophomore maybe?) when trying to recruit Kitty, but also young enough to still be relatively malleable to the whims of her much older Hellfire superiors.
    Hank is the oldest followed by Warren and Scott, then Jean and finally Bobby as youngest. Emma was originally older than them but retcons have made her contemporary to their ages
    Last edited by Havok83; 12-03-2018 at 06:54 AM.

  6. #1566
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    Scemma was already crumbling by the time AvX came around. Scott was completely cold towards Emma's recovery from losing the arm, didn't give two shits about Unit making her have sex with Namor in the snow (Unit even says it usually didn't work that well) and Gillen didn't believe they should keep being a couple as, in his vision, Emma should stab Scott in the back and take everything from him, since "she's nothing but her pride". I wouldn't compare Namor to Logan BC, essentially, Scott's feelings for Emma had all but faded away at that point.
    I completely forgot about that Unit scene. I'd never heard about Gillen being the one who wanted to break up Scemma. Did he ever say if AvX altered his plans for how it was going to play out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Semi-related question that might be more appropriate for their respective appreciation thread but here I go anyhow:

    Not asking for specific numbers BUT..... how do folks view the ages of Scott, Jean and Emma? I'm not asking about Logan because he ancient.

    So, I fully recognize the absurdity of the sliding timescale and additionally the dramatic shift in the likely intention around Emma Frost when she was CREATED vs where she is NOW..... BUT....

    I've always felt that Jean was the "hot senior" of the O5, (Hank being closest to her age) to the "junior" level boys (Warren & Scott), with Bobbers being youngest (freshmen level, if applying educational parallels) which left Emma (in my mind) at a college level (sophomore maybe?) when trying to recruit Kitty, but also young enough to still be relatively malleable to the whims of her much older Hellfire superiors.
    Of the O5, I believe Hank has already been established as the oldest. If using the high school analogy, since they were around that age when first introduced, I saw Hank as a senior; Warren, Scott, and Jean as juniors/sophomores; and Bobby as a freshman. Now, though, things are different. Mentally, Scott and Jean are over a decade older since their minds were sent to the future where they raised Cable from a baby to a teenager. Physically, Jean is by far the youngest due to the fact that she had spent years (in comics time) regenerating in a cocoon after the Phoenix Force replaced her and then even longer dead when Xorneto killed her.

    As for Emma, all the retcons give mixed interpretations with her age, but I've always seen her as at least a few years older than the O5. Not as old as Prof. X or Banshee, but old enough so that it wouldn't be conspicuous that she had established her own company and school by the time she was first introduced (so late 20s/early 30s during the Dark Phoenix Saga while the O5 would have been in their mid 20s). Now, I see her as in her mid to late 30s.

    Of course, everyone's been stuck at the same age for decades now. Most of the X-Men are in their late 20s/early 30s. Then there's the New Mutants/X-Force generation in their mid 20s. Gen X is like early 20s. Then the New X-Men/Young X-Men/Generation Hope/academy whatever kids are teenagers. I kind of feel bad for the last group because they basically haven't been allowed to grow up and every new book about a mutant school for the past 15 years just adds to their ranks.

  7. #1567
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Thank you for your very thorough and thought out assessment, nightw1ng.

  8. #1568
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Semi-related question that might be more appropriate for their respective appreciation thread but here I go anyhow:

    Not asking for specific numbers BUT..... how do folks view the ages of Scott, Jean and Emma? I'm not asking about Logan because he ancient.

    So, I fully recognize the absurdity of the sliding timescale and additionally the dramatic shift in the likely intention around Emma Frost when she was CREATED vs where she is NOW..... BUT....

    I've always felt that Jean was the "hot senior" of the O5, (Hank being closest to her age) to the "junior" level boys (Warren & Scott), with Bobbers being youngest (freshmen level, if applying educational parallels) which left Emma (in my mind) at a college level (sophomore maybe?) when trying to recruit Kitty, but also young enough to still be relatively malleable to the whims of her much older Hellfire superiors.
    I agree with Nightw1ng above, for the most part. Hank is a year or two older, Jean, Scott, and Warren are about the same age, and Bobby is a year or two younger. Emma would originally have been older than anyone else - almost a halfway point between the X-Men and Xavier, but with the retcon under Morrison she seems to be the same age is the main three. Personally, I consider her more a contemporary of Hank, maybe a year or two older.

  9. #1569
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Emma is probably older than Jean but younger than Sage. I gave up after seeing that book where Emma meets Sean before he comes Banshee.

  10. #1570
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    I think she's the same age as the O5.

    It confuses people that she was at the same level as Xavier and Magneto, but I think that's down to the skill her in powers. Her mantra is use your powers to get ahead in life and that's what she did. She made an empire and carved out a place for herself in the world.

    I also think what happened to the Hellions could be immaturity at accomplishing so much at a young age.

  11. #1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightw1ng View Post
    I completely forgot about that Unit scene. I'd never heard about Gillen being the one who wanted to break up Scemma. Did he ever say if AvX altered his plans for how it was going to play out?
    AvX messed his plans completely. He intended to do more with Unit and space-related stuff. I remember him saying he had some Akira-style stuff planned for Unit, where he would use SWORD to bombard the whole planet.

    Related to the Schism dynamic, he planned an all-out conflict between Logan's team and Scott's team. The Extinction team would turn Utopia back into Asteroid M, Cyclops would emerge as the winner of the war between the two factions and Emma would betray Scott, after they broke up, and take everything from him, team, resources and students. She would then go full villain.

    It was a post in his Tumblr that he took down for reasons. There's also the stuff he talked about with Rich Johnston that I don't think adds too much, but what I posted is pretty much the gist of it.

  12. #1572
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    AvX messed his plans completely. He intended to do more with Unit and space-related stuff. I remember him saying he had some Akira-style stuff planned for Unit, where he would use SWORD to bombard the whole planet.

    Related to the Schism dynamic, he planned an all-out conflict between Logan's team and Scott's team. The Extinction team would turn Utopia back into Asteroid M, Cyclops would emerge as the winner of the war between the two factions and Emma would betray Scott, after they broke up, and take everything from him, team, resources and students. She would then go full villain.

    It was a post in his Tumblr that he took down for reasons. There's also the stuff he talked about with Rich Johnston that I don't think adds too much, but what I posted is pretty much the gist of it.
    And then the Bendis Nation attacked.

  13. #1573
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post

    Related to the Schism dynamic, he planned an all-out conflict between Logan's team and Scott's team. The Extinction team would turn Utopia back into Asteroid M, Cyclops would emerge as the winner of the war between the two factions and Emma would betray Scott, after they broke up, and take everything from him, team, resources and students. She would then go full villain.
    TRULY??? That would have DEVASTATED me.

  14. #1574
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Most likely Marvel had just gotten sick of writing the Scott/Emma pairing and needed some in story excuse to end it. I doubt they had any intention of exploring the Namor angle in depth, but they didn't really have much chemistry in any event. It seems like the affair was just cooked up so that once again Scott wouldn't be at fault, although there's still the little matter of him going all Wayne Brady on Emma later in the story which is indefensible from any perspective.
    namor was just used by that specific story, seems like everyone forgot about this now.
    The psychic affair gave Scott a reason to break up without looking bad. Then Scott wants to be forgiven by jean for doing the same thing, the hipocrisy.
    I also find it funny that emma doesn't get any backlash for doing it with Namor, while Jean gets a lot for anything, even for one kiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    And then the Bendis Nation attacked.
    Dammit. I really liked Gillen ideas for x-men

  15. #1575
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Namor is hot, he can even seduce Sue Storm.
    just look at this
    Di_Q1b5_EXk_AEGb_Wm.jpg

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