The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[spirit2011]

True. Jean's always been the one driving the relationship forward, with the exception of the end of X-Factor when Scott wanted to get married and she was having serious issues due to Maddie and Phoenix memories.

Personally I have no problem with them having time and space. Where I struggle is to understand why they would want it. Space won't solve the issues that exist between them because of the Morrison run. There's obviously still a lot of emotion there. I think rushing into a relationship again is wrong simply because there's problems that need to be solved. As long as Marvel allows them some closure on the marriage they've already had, they can take time figuring out the next step.

Jean might still be confused by her feelings for Bishop from AOXM. It's really bad that the only chance Jean has to have another relationship, Scott is alive.

Go straight to a relationship would feel really wrong, they have huge problems to solve. And milk the drama

[TheCape]

Yeah, hopefully that happens. I'm very much liking how Logan is in Uncanny so far. Still waiting for that solo series though.

Instead of some supposed "rivalry", they are now having an odd sexual innuendo bromance.

Their rilvary tecnically ended after the Proteus arc, in Claremont run, they had the ocassional disagretment, but nothing big. Until Schism happened, but that seems to be water under the bridge (i just headcanon than that conversation in WatXM #40 did the trick). As for the innuendo, that something that wvery leader expirience with Logan, just let go thing to the natural conclusion

[TheCape]

Why are some making Logan out to be some sort of relentless sexual predator who wouldn't take no for an answer? Yes he was attracted to Jean and yes he flirted with her but he never crossed the line into sexual harassment or assault. He was always aware of her relationship with Scott and respected it, and ultimately when Jean did make a move he stopped it because he knew it was a mistake and he's not the type of guy to take advantage of a woman, he never has. Besides he's had his own relationships, most notably with Mariko who I'd argue is his true love and I believe he would choose her over Jean. Logan was never an obstacle to Scott and Jean would never have cheated on Scott with Logan, he would never have gone through with it. I believe there was feelings between them but it was more platonic love then romantic. And I certainly don't see them getting together going forward. For Jean it's either back with Scott or something new with Bishop, for Logan maybe single for awhile but Mariko is alive again so that's a possibility. And honestly I would prefer that. So no Logan never violated or crossed the line with Jean, it's not his way.

I was the main one bringing that and trust me man. As a fan of Logan, i don't believe that he would had cross that line, but it got dangerously close to, i don't that it was the intention, but for me, it toys the line too much. At the end of the day i mostly chalk up to writer not being as tastefull back in those daysn but is still a part of his story that i don't enjoy.

[spirit2011]

Why are some making Logan out to be some sort of relentless sexual predator who wouldn't take no for an answer? Yes he was attracted to Jean and yes he flirted with her but he never crossed the line into sexual harassment or assault. He was always aware of her relationship with Scott and respected it, and ultimately when Jean did make a move he stopped it because he knew it was a mistake and he's not the type of guy to take advantage of a woman, he never has. Besides he's had his own relationships, most notably with Mariko who I'd argue is his true love and I believe he would choose her over Jean. Logan was never an obstacle to Scott and Jean would never have cheated on Scott with Logan, he would never have gone through with it. I believe there was feelings between them but it was more platonic love then romantic. And I certainly don't see them getting together going forward. For Jean it's either back with Scott or something new with Bishop, for Logan maybe single for awhile but Mariko is alive again so that's a possibility. And honestly I would prefer that. So no Logan never violated or crossed the line with Jean, it's not his way.

Jean and Logan is very much closed. It's clear marvel doesn't want to go there. I don't think they ever wanted. It was more Claremont

[Hizashi]

It is not so strange for widowers to continue to love the person you have lost and at the same time to love someone new. They are different loves.

Yeah, I'm of this opinion as well, but apparently it's not a popular one.

[Glio]

Sure.

But he was not faithful, he literally said” Emma is what he needs” and making out on top of your dead wife grave is just disrespect.

You know that happened because a future cosmic bird made him do it, right?

And it was Jean who said that Emma was what Scott needed.

[spirit2011]

Sometimes I just wish they really made Endsong into canon and had Scott move on Jean.

[PsychoEFrost]

Sometimes I just wish they really made Endsong into canon and had Scott move on Jean.

Endsong is canon. Jean becoming WPotC was the biggest takeaway.

[Havok83]

Endsong is canon. Jean becoming WPotC was the biggest takeaway.

and that was later retconned/ignored

[spirit2011]

and that was later retconned/ignored

yep there is no way that could happen

We're not dealing with real people here. This is art, and artists by their nature are not consistent. The only approach that I think makes sense is to look at the entire body of work, rather than simply exceptions.

The Inferno kiss, Jean reacted to very negatively and really gave Logan (and Scott) a piece of her mind. The X-Tinction Agenda and Classic #27 kisses are both a lot more problematic. You never really get the sense that she had a serious boundaries conversation with Logan in either case. It leaves us with the impression that there was at least tacit approval. This was very poor decision making by Jean, but I chalk up both cases to Claremont's disillusion with Jott by that time, rather than some romance or lust simmering under the surface between Jean and Logan.

The Morrison kiss is really a much different animal and it's worth taking a closer look. Let's compare that encounter with Emma and Scott's affair that was just about to break a few issues later.

Jean went to Logan because her and Scott's relationship was breaking down. Scott went to Emma because his and Jean's relationship was breaking down. The goals were different in that Jean wanted to confide and Scott wanted to fix, but the motives were pretty much the same. If either Scott or Jean had their thinking caps on, both would have realized that the person they were seeking help from, wasn't a good or appropriate choice because they both had ulterior motives. Both ended up getting physical. The only difference was that Logan pumped the breaks. If he hadn't, we can't say for sure where that would have ended but there's certainly a possibility it went all the way.

I see a lot of people say that the psychic affair was especially damaging to Jean because thoughts matter as much to a telepath as actions. I don't buy that line of reasoning, but it's definitely an opinion some hold. In the scenario with Logan and Jean I think it's pretty clear what Jean has on her mind. Yes, the stated reason is that she's broken up about Scott's distance, but she decided to make that encounter become something else. This is exactly what Scott is guilty of with Emma. In both scenarios they knew what they were doing was wrong. If it's truly thoughts that matter, both of them committed adultery in their minds the moment they crossed that line.

Adultery is adultery. This whole who cheated worse thing is moronic. It doesn't matter. When a marriage is at the point that both parties are getting intimate emotional or physical comfort from someone else, they're both actively working against the marriage.

To bring this all the way around though, do the incidents of indiscretion really show a pattern of behavior, or are we dealing with a writer who has an agenda? The vast majority of Scott and Jean's depictions as a couple described two people who trusted, confided and relied on each other completely. I think it's clear that whenever they broke from that pattern, it was because a writer was trying to make a point about the relationship and needed to bend or break it to do so. I don't think anyone can reasonably say that the problems in Morrison were at all characteristic of the relationship that proceeded it.

Jean knew Logan, Scott didn't knew Emma. On the annual he thinks she is a shady ex-villain and she proposes adultery.
Very different situations, there wasn't nothing about Emma that Scott could trust. Jean had a better grasp on Logan.

Also she didn't went to the woods to have sex with Logan ok

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Jean and Logan is very much closed. It's clear marvel doesn't want to go there. I don't think they ever wanted. It was more Claremont

No pairing of that level is ever truly closed, whether it's happened before or not, and if Marvel thought that Jean/Logan would make money they'd do it...

[Havok83]

No pairing of that level is ever truly closed, whether it's happened before or not, and if Marvel thought that Jean/Logan would make money they'd do it...

they clearly dont which is why they havent in the 40+ years that the two have been around in coexistence

[Ulfhammer]

Jean might still be confused by her feelings for Bishop from AOXM. It's really bad that the only chance Jean has to have another relationship, Scott is alive.

Go straight to a relationship would feel really wrong, they have huge problems to solve. And milk the drama

I'm sure she'll be very confused when she realizes what Nate did. Then she'll be angry. Very angry.

It's really too bad that Scott couldn't find her before she left. I guess everyone's treating AoXM as some sort of fantasy sex vacation but it's actually some scummy apartment where they feed you Rohypnol and you forget who you are. Sounds like a blast. At least it'll be guilt free.

Yeah, I've literally heard of no one suggesting they just get directly back on the horse. Fubar buys into this but I understand the reasoning used. I'm the opposite and would rather have this stuff worked out. You know whether they get together or not, they still need to work these emotions out.

[Ulfhammer]

yep there is no way that could happen



Jean knew Logan, Scott didn't knew Emma. On the annual he thinks she is a shady ex-villain and she proposes adultery.
Very different situations, there wasn't nothing about Emma that Scott could trust. Jean had a better grasp on Logan.

Also she didn't went to the woods to have sex with Logan ok

No she didn't go to the woods to have sex with Logan, but that's where it went. Just like Scott didn't go to Emma looking for an affair. These things happened due to a series of poor choices. The difference between Scott and Jean in this scenario is Logan said No and Emma said yes.

Emma, just like Logan was a member of the team. One who joined because Charles vouched for him. Just like Emma. They all had to trust Logan and Emma with their lives. I think that a sufficient level of trust.

[Ulfhammer]

No pairing of that level is ever truly closed, whether it's happened before or not, and if Marvel thought that Jean/Logan would make money they'd do it...

It's not a pairing because they've never been paired. A few stolen kisses over the years does not a pairing make.