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  1. #2371
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Infidelity is an ugly business, but is not always end, there are people that had been able to overcome.such things in their relationships. Besides, in spite that, Scott was a good boyfriend/spouse for lile 98% of the relationship, why she wouldn't give him another try after missing for so long.

    Also, seriously man, that whole thing between him and Jean makes Logan look awfull most of the time, there is really no much evidence that she feels the same (and please don't bring that scan from Fattal Attractions, those weren't even her thoughs and words) and he just looks pathetic or creepy, sometimes boths, considering that Marvel never had give then a serious chance, is better to move on from it (hell he looked more accepting about that Emma).
    I'm going to come out and say that the last issue did what probably needed to happen to the respective triangles - driving a stake into their respective hearts and (short term at least) killing them. If the writers want things to stay that way they may need to give it the Oliver Cromwell treatment (where the Brits exhumed the body to execute him again) every few years, though.

    Love triangles are a great thing when they move the plot forward, but as is often the case in comics, they become a status quo, and those are always bad. No love triangle should ever be the baseline for a set of characters, it does no favors to anyone involved.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  2. #2372
    Spectacular Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    Two women fighting for Scott Summers is the most unrealistic thing in X-canon. I really like Scott as a guy who shows the stress of his leadership responsibilities by exhausting his personal relationships. I don't buy post-Morrison Scott as a person capable of having a healthy or stable relationship outside of 'work'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Okay Fam.
    I'm reserving judgement for this rekindled romance for where and how its fostered moving forward, BUT....

    Despite my reserved feelings on the matter, am I alone in thinking: THAT IS SOME STRAIGHT UP HORNY TONGUE TANGLE ASS GRAB I WAS DEAD SO LETS BANG IT OUT stuff right there?

    Seems....extreme?
    I don't even buy Scott as a guy who deals with extreme stress through sex, like a Don Draper or Bill Clinton. Jean, Emma and Wolverine, fair enough. That doesn't mean he can't be attracted or fall in love. Just he'd be kind of uncomfortable getting a boner outside of his bedroom.

  3. #2373
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foon4000 View Post
    I don't even buy Scott as a guy who deals with extreme stress through sex, like a Don Draper or Bill Clinton. Jean, Emma and Wolverine, fair enough. That doesn't mean he can't be attracted or fall in love. Just he'd be kind of uncomfortable getting a boner outside of his bedroom.
    He typically works his issues out in the Danger Room, but part of what started the whole ball rolling downhill in Morrison's run was pretty much what you describe - Scott was uncomfortable wanting things in a relationship that couldn't fit into a Norman Rockwell painting. The only thing that makes Scott and Emma coming together work for me is the understanding that Emma did it just to stick it to Jean, and fell in love despite that not being part of the plan.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  4. #2374
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    He typically works his issues out in the Danger Room, but part of what started the whole ball rolling downhill in Morrison's run was pretty much what you describe - Scott was uncomfortable wanting things in a relationship that couldn't fit into a Norman Rockwell painting. The only thing that makes Scott and Emma coming together work for me is the understanding that Emma did it just to stick it to Jean, and fell in love despite that not being part of the plan.
    That reminds me, wasn't Morrison personal interpretaion of Scott basically "a great hero for the mutants, but terrible when it comes to his personal relationships" or i'm remembering wrong.
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  5. #2375
    Spectacular Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    He typically works his issues out in the Danger Room, but part of what started the whole ball rolling downhill in Morrison's run was pretty much what you describe - Scott was uncomfortable wanting things in a relationship that couldn't fit into a Norman Rockwell painting. The only thing that makes Scott and Emma coming together work for me is the understanding that Emma did it just to stick it to Jean, and fell in love despite that not being part of the plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    That reminds me, wasn't Morrison personal interpretaion of Scott basically "a great hero for the mutants, but terrible when it comes to his personal relationships" or i'm remembering wrong.
    I remember him saying that as well. What I don't get (like Gray Lensman) is the Emma 'falling in love despite herself' bit. Why? Out of pity? I can kind of see her developing feelings for Banshee in Generation X through admiration of his decency and kindness to the kids. I can see her getting kind of mushy (while hating herself for it) for someone with a big heart and a belief in people's better nature. What does Scott give Emma that she doesn't have herself? Does he have really good stock market tips? Does she feel a sense of responsibility for keeping him propped up while he's leading the team?

  6. #2376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foon4000 View Post
    I remember him saying that as well. What I don't get (like Gray Lensman) is the Emma 'falling in love despite herself' bit. Why? Out of pity? I can kind of see her developing feelings for Banshee in Generation X through admiration of his decency and kindness to the kids. I can see her getting kind of mushy (while hating herself for it) for someone with a big heart and a belief in people's better nature. What does Scott give Emma that she doesn't have herself? Does he have really good stock market tips? Does she feel a sense of responsibility for keeping him propped up while he's leading the team?
    Morrison gave Emma a partial personality transplant. Instead of continuing her as a high-functioning sociopath and peer of Xavier's and Magneto's who'd been chastened by the deaths of her students (i.e. the Hellions), Morrison reinvented her as a snotty, snarky rich girl who puts on a tough act, but who inside is really a damaged, abused girl who just wants to be loved. So, she resented Jean--the "good girl"/"big sister" to her "bad girl"/"little sister"--because Jean was everything she's not and loved for it. And, going after Scott was a way to fuck with Jean. But, of course, the real reason for Emma's resentment was that she wanted to BE Jean and be loved liked her. By LARPing as Jean during her "therapy" for Scott, Emma got to experience Scott's love for Jean and how it felt. Having never experienced that kind of love before, she fell for Scott.

    Then, Jean conveniently died so Emma got her to chance to take Jean's place, both as Scott's lover and as the "den mother"/"big sister" of the X-Men.

  7. #2377
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Morrison gave Emma a partial personality transplant. Instead of continuing her as a high-functioning sociopath and peer of Xavier's and Magneto's who'd been chastened by the deaths of her students (i.e. the Hellions), Morrison reinvented her as a snotty, snarky rich girl who puts on a tough act, but who inside is really a damaged, abused girl who just wants to be loved. So, she resented Jean--the "good girl"/"big sister" to her "bad girl"/"little sister"--because Jean was everything she's not and loved for it. And, going after Scott was a way to fuck with Jean. But, of course, the real reason for Emma's resentment was that she wanted to BE Jean and be loved liked her. By LARPing as Jean during her "therapy" for Scott, Emma got to experience Scott's love for Jean and how it felt. Having never experienced that kind of love before, she fell for Scott.

    Then, Jean conveniently died so Emma got her to chance to take Jean's place, both as Scott's lover and as the "den mother"/"big sister" of the X-Men.
    Pretty close to what I think, but I always felt that Emma's internal monologue concerning Jean is something like this, although I am typing it out rather crudely.

    "No matter what she does, it will never be too much. She will always be loved.

    No matter what I do, it will never be enough. I will never be loved."

    Basically, what you said with the addition of Emma feeling like she is on the crap end of a double standard (and having felt that way myself in other situations I can tell you that it makes one really resentful really fast - I tended to look for alternate employment once I realized it since it was always at work).
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  8. #2378
    Astonishing Member bell's Avatar
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    At this point both Logan and Emma know that even if they are in bed with Jean and Scott their hearts would never belong to them.

    Logan has been the one always going after Jean. Jean on the other hand has only kiss him once out of free will. Then 99% of the time her heart is with Scott. Why would you want to be in that painful relationship where the woman you have been chasing for so long her heart is miles away? Same with Emma.

    Someone said that in all the cartoons and movies the subject of Logan and Jean has been touch, but they forgot to mention that it has been Logan who has had this feelings and not Jean. She has stay with Scott. The fox movies even there she only seems to want Scott. Is Logan the creepy guy chasing the one woman whos heart belongs to another.

  9. #2379
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bell View Post
    At this point both Logan and Emma know that even if they are in bed with Jean and Scott their hearts would never belong to them.

    Logan has been the one always going after Jean. Jean on the other hand has only kiss him once out of free will. Then 99% of the time her heart is with Scott. Why would you want to be in that painful relationship where the woman you are you been chasing for so long her heart is miles away? Same with Emma.

    Someone said that in all the cartoons and movies the subject of Logan and Jean has been touch, but they forgot to mention that it has been Logan who has had this feelings and not Jean. She has stay with Scott. The fox movies even there she only seems to want Scott. Is Logan the creepy guy chasing the one woman whos heart belongs to another.
    Logan even says this outright to Emma in the Morrison run "If you come between them you'll only end up hurt" or something similar to that, and he was likely speaking from personal experience with his own attempts to come between them.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  10. #2380
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bell View Post
    At this point both Logan and Emma know that even if they are in bed with Jean and Scott their hearts would never belong to them.

    Logan has been the one always going after Jean. Jean on the other hand has only kiss him once out of free will. Then 99% of the time her heart is with Scott. Why would you want to be in that painful relationship where the woman you have been chasing for so long her heart is miles away? Same with Emma.

    Someone said that in all the cartoons and movies the subject of Logan and Jean has been touch, but they forgot to mention that it has been Logan who has had this feelings and not Jean. She has stay with Scott. The fox movies even there she only seems to want Scott. Is Logan the creepy guy chasing the one woman whos heart belongs to another.
    More or less i agreed, although i always though that in the movie Jean wanted to cheat on Scott with Logan, not saying that i liked or wanted that, just the impression that it gave me.
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  11. #2381
    Incredible Member Hi-Fi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    More or less i agreed, although i always though that in the movie Jean wanted to cheat on Scott with Logan, not saying that i liked or wanted that, just the impression that it gave me.
    Jean IS attracted to Logan, she's said so many times.

  12. #2382
    Spectacular Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Morrison gave Emma a partial personality transplant. Instead of continuing her as a high-functioning sociopath and peer of Xavier's and Magneto's who'd been chastened by the deaths of her students (i.e. the Hellions), Morrison reinvented her as a snotty, snarky rich girl who puts on a tough act, but who inside is really a damaged, abused girl who just wants to be loved. So, she resented Jean--the "good girl"/"big sister" to her "bad girl"/"little sister"--because Jean was everything she's not and loved for it. And, going after Scott was a way to fuck with Jean. But, of course, the real reason for Emma's resentment was that she wanted to BE Jean and be loved liked her. By LARPing as Jean during her "therapy" for Scott, Emma got to experience Scott's love for Jean and how it felt. Having never experienced that kind of love before, she fell for Scott.

    Then, Jean conveniently died so Emma got her to chance to take Jean's place, both as Scott's lover and as the "den mother"/"big sister" of the X-Men.
    I really like Morrison, but yeah. 'Good' writers write women and female sexuality badly. It's a rule, not an exception. I wish more would own up to it.
    Last edited by Foon4000; 07-18-2019 at 11:18 AM.

  13. #2383
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    Jean IS attracted to Logan, she's said so many times.
    I know that i'm talking more about from a narrative perspective, the movies were clearly trying to make care more about Jogan than Jott, wich even as a Wolverine fan left a bitter taste on my mouth. To put it perspective, in the comics i can't buy that idea that Jean would ever consider leave Scott for Logan. In the movies, i'm not so sure.
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  14. #2384
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Morrison gave Emma a partial personality transplant. Instead of continuing her as a high-functioning sociopath and peer of Xavier's and Magneto's who'd been chastened by the deaths of her students (i.e. the Hellions), Morrison reinvented her as a snotty, snarky rich girl who puts on a tough act, but who inside is really a damaged, abused girl who just wants to be loved. So, she resented Jean--the "good girl"/"big sister" to her "bad girl"/"little sister"--because Jean was everything she's not and loved for it. And, going after Scott was a way to fuck with Jean. But, of course, the real reason for Emma's resentment was that she wanted to BE Jean and be loved liked her. By LARPing as Jean during her "therapy" for Scott, Emma got to experience Scott's love for Jean and how it felt. Having never experienced that kind of love before, she fell for Scott.

    Then, Jean conveniently died so Emma got her to chance to take Jean's place, both as Scott's lover and as the "den mother"/"big sister" of the X-Men.

    This has to be the worst take I've ever read. What was mentioned in Morrisons run is Jean wanting to be like Emma. Which she says after Emma pushes the bliss buttons of those protesters.

    Emma Frost never took Jeans place she took Xaviers role and responsibilities.

    What actually happened in Morrisons run is Scott and Jean marriage became stale. They had issues before Emma was a on the scene and the bed sheets were ice cold.

    Scott got bored. And Jean was getting off using the Phoenix Force.
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 07-18-2019 at 11:46 AM.

  15. #2385
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foon4000 View Post
    I really like Morrison, but yeah. 'Good' writers write women and female sexuality badly. It's a rule, not an exception. I wish more would own up to it.
    Morrison view of women is pretty flawed and fetichist. His wonder woman earth one book is big nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I know that i'm talking more about from a narrative perspective, the movies were clearly trying to make care more about Jogan than Jott, wich even as a Wolverine fan left a bitter taste on my mouth. To put it perspective, in the comics i can't buy that idea that Jean would ever consider leave Scott for Logan. In the movies, i'm not so sure.
    Movies also she wouldn't go for Logan. She even says she prefers the good boys.

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