The Rectangle: Jean/Scott/Emma/Logan Discussion

[ExodusCloak]

And now this thread goes south with someone who was stuck in the 90s and another shouting rape over exaggerating Cyclops state in New X-Men who wasn't clinically ill making a rational decision to play fantasy games with another woman and enjoying it. And feeling guilty he enjoyed it more then spending time with his wife. That is what an affair is.

It surprisingly lasted 3 pages with civil conversation

[Abbz_A]

He was indeed.

Emma raped Scott. That's not love. Emma may think that's love but it isn't.

Of course, Scott also fell in love with his rapist. He' so messed up his rapist is the love of his life. So maybe Scott also thinks rape is love.

That's Morrison for you. Toxic. They deserve each other. Hope Jean stays away.

Actually that’s true, but u can’t blame Scott .. he was vulnerable and depressed.. And he probably thought it was love since Emma was “there for him”.

I mean, I never thought of it as rape .. but now that u have mentioned it. It sure seems like it.
Their relationship was horrible since day 1. Thank god it’s over

[Abbz_A]

And now this thread goes south with someone who was stuck in the 90s and another shouting rape over exaggerating Cyclops state in New X-Men who wasn't clinically ill making a rational decision to play fantasy games with another woman and enjoying it.

It surprisingly lasted 3 pages with civil conversation

We will always keep it civil. <3 it’s just comic

But yea, I mean scott was indeed vulnerable and depressed.
Emma was unethical to use his situation to her advantage.

[ExodusCloak]

We will always keep it civil. <3 it’s just comic

But yea, I mean scott was indeed vulnerable and depressed.
Emma was unethical to use his situation to her advantage.

Cyclops wasn't persistently pervasively low mood. Nor did he gain weight or lose his appetite or lose sleep. If anything he was stimulated and elated. So he was not depressed just lonely

Emma wasn't married to Jean. Scott was.

Cyclops was not mentally ill during that period. Jean was in shock her comments were her trying to rationalize his betrayal she then doubles down once she realises Scott loves Emma and makes him happy.

[origami]

For me, Jean and Scott are meant to be each other's one true love.
Like Reed Richards and Susan Storm, they are destined to be together.
They may drift apart now and then, but sooner or later, they will come together again.
Anything and everything that happen in between are nothing but temporary distractions, because the path to true love is never easy

[Ulfhammer]

Cyclops wasn't persistently pervasively low mood. Nor did he gain weight or lose his appetite or lose sleep. If anything he was stimulated and elated. So he was not depressed just lonely

Emma wasn't married to Jean. Scott was.

Cyclops was not mentally ill during that period. Jean was in shock her comments were her trying to rationalize his betrayal she then doubles down once she realises Scott loves Emma and makes him happy.

Actually Jean's comment was that Emma had fallen in love with Scott, not the other way around.

As for his appetites and sleep schedules, these kinds of details aren't typically included in comics so I don't think we can be sure either way. As for him being stimulated and elated, maybe you can point out some examples of that in NXM. I'll agree some of that showed up later but in NXM I mostly recall he seemed depressed and insular. His "talks" with Emma was mostly him sharing his doubts and confusion, and wondering if what they were doing was inappropriate.

To be clear, I don't buy the "Emma raped Scott" argument. I just don't think he was very happy, with Jean or with Emma.

[yogaflame]

Emma was unethical to use his situation to her advantage.

Emma? Unethical? Perish the thought!

[Abbz_A]

Actually Jean's comment was that Emma had fallen in love with Scott, not the other way around.

As for his appetites and sleep schedules, these kinds of details aren't typically included in comics so I don't think we can be sure either way. As for him being stimulated and elated, maybe you can point out some examples of that in NXM. I'll agree some of that showed up later but in NXM I mostly recall he seemed depressed and insular. His "talks" with Emma was mostly him sharing his doubts and confusion, and wondering if what they were doing was inappropriate.

To be clear, I don't buy the "Emma raped Scott" argument. I just don't think he was very happy, with Jean or with Emma.

If the genders were reversed, people would be calling Scott a rapist. A therapist seducing her patient who’s depressed is lowkey rape.
And yea after the apocalypse thing he wasn’t happy with Jean either cz the guy was depressed n confused. But didn’t he say he missed her every second. If only they could rekindle their love.

[Cyyyke]

I love these four, not equally, but really. I love Jott, Scemma and Jogan is fine by me. Even Jemma(?) and Scogan are nice, too...
It's kind of wired for me to see these ship fights. I just want to see them happy and find a way works for everyone. But I think now it's even more complicated than before. The Logan-Ororo relationship is...I don't know how to describe it. Then Logan died. Emma and Scott broke up but they obviously still cared for each other. Then Scott died and Emma went dark. Now Jean is back. So is Logan. And maybe so will Cyke. It's hard to guess what will happen next. Will xx still love xx? Will xx be with xx? Will xx or xx move on?
But Extermination #1 makes me think it will be a lot of Summers/Grey family content. Maybe when all things are settled, it will be Jean and Cyke, Logan being Logan, Emma being sad/dark/nowhere? (NO!!)
I don't know. Unless someone finally moves on, this will always hurt someone, and, as a result, me. *sigh*

[spirit2011]

But Emma fell in love with him in that run and Scott chose her at the end of the run

yes, Scott chooses Emma. When he finds Jean dying, he feels very guilty and tries to say it to Jean. only that seeing her dying he changed idea.

there wasnt rape on this situation, Scott knew what he was doing

[TheMessiahIsAlwaysRight]

But Extermination #1 makes me think it will be a lot of Summers/Grey family content.

I agree. Maybe Cable's death can rekindle their relationship. But will Scott return this time?

[thechronic92]

The affair was terrible and the way Marvel dealt with the fallout was problematic. The less said about it the better.

[ExodusCloak]

Actually Jean's comment was that Emma had fallen in love with Scott, not the other way around.

As for his appetites and sleep schedules, these kinds of details aren't typically included in comics so I don't think we can be sure either way. As for him being stimulated and elated, maybe you can point out some examples of that in NXM. I'll agree some of that showed up later but in NXM I mostly recall he seemed depressed and insular. His "talks" with Emma was mostly him sharing his doubts and confusion, and wondering if what they were doing was inappropriate.

To be clear, I don't buy the "Emma raped Scott" argument. I just don't think he was very happy, with Jean or with Emma.

No Jean later says Scott needs you and comes to terms with the fact that he loves Emma. Scott even chose Emma and that's confirmed in Endsong. She accomopanied him on Cerebra and them sharing their fantasies in NXM 121 iirc. Their talks were about fantasies and him wanting to try new stuff during sex. And Emma made him all sweaty and hot. Frost wasn't his therapist she wasn't acting in that manner she wasn't getting paid for it. Playing therapist/patient was as much a fantasy as playing Phoenix.

We saw him eating and sleeping fine. We saw him getting sweaty with Emma and even going to the hellfire club to get off. He wasn't depressed not by the dsm v guidelines anyway

[Revenant]

We discuss this on every thread.
every thread eventually devolves into this.

there really wasn't a need to create one to keep the hate cycle.

this is like the most toxic topic on these boards. that never goes anywhere good, just hateful discussion.

Cyclops is dead, there isn't a love rectangle. We don't need more Cyclops, Jean, Emma, Logan, Jott, Scemma or Jogan hate

My savior.

[jollygoldfish]

And now this thread goes south with someone who was stuck in the 90s and another shouting rape over exaggerating Cyclops state in New X-Men who wasn't clinically ill making a rational decision to play fantasy games with another woman and enjoying it. And feeling guilty he enjoyed it more then spending time with his wife. That is what an affair is.

It surprisingly lasted 3 pages with civil conversation

Cyclops wasn't persistently pervasively low mood. Nor did he gain weight or lose his appetite or lose sleep. If anything he was stimulated and elated. So he was not depressed just lonely

Emma wasn't married to Jean. Scott was.

Cyclops was not mentally ill during that period. Jean was in shock her comments were her trying to rationalize his betrayal she then doubles down once she realises Scott loves Emma and makes him happy.

It was rape.

Cyclops didn't need to be mentally ill or clinically depressed in order for him to be unable to give proper consent.

I'm going to quote sniktice at sniktice.tumblr.com who is openly a rape victim and activist against abuse as she puts it better than I ever could.

"Emma Frost was Scott’s therapist. She was in a position of authority and power over him. She manipulated a vulnerable, deeply disturbed Scott into having a psychic affair. He had been possessed by Apocalypse for months. His relationship with Jean was falling apart because Scott was disillusioned over a lot of crap.

Consent is:

Freely given
While in your right mind
With no influence of alcohol, drugs, coercion or mind altering and mentally disturbing experiences
Continuous
Active
Enthusiastic
Not “we shouldn’t do this”
Not “we are just sharing a thought”
Not one person seeking out consoling

Sorry but Scott Summers post possession by Apocalypse was incapable of consent due to the deep level of disturbance that experience caused. Frost sleeping with him in any way, especially given that he did actively come looking for consoling from her, was plain and simple not something he was in the right state of mind to consent to.

There is such a thing as saying yes and it still being rape. It happens when one half is too young, too vulnerable, too out of their fucking mind or otherwise compromised."