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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Frost wasn't his therapist she wasn't acting in that manner she wasn't getting paid for it. Playing therapist/patient was as much a fantasy as playing Phoenix.
    Yes she was his therapist and acting as his therapist. It doesn't matter if she was paid for it or not. He came to her for help with his relationship with Jean. He wasn't joking about that. Nor was that a game for him.

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollygoldfish View Post
    Yes she was his therapist and acting as his therapist. It doesn't matter if she was paid for it or not. He came to her for help with his relationship with Jean. He wasn't joking about that. Nor was that a game for him.
    Wrong she wasn't his therapist, it does matter if she has a license, is paid, is taking clinical notes she wasn't acting in any professional capacity. He came to her because he felt alive when he was around her. And his marriage was dead. He came for sex. Which is apparent as all they did was swap fantasies of their favorite sex positions. Which is what was bothering Cyclops in the first place. He wanted to try new sex things since Apocalypse brought certain thoughts to the fire front. And was embarrassed not depressed but embarrassed
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 08-21-2018 at 03:40 PM.

  3. #63
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    lol Emma was not his therapist. And she certainly didn't rape him.

    I don't get the fandom for a character who can't admit when he wants to bang a girl, does bang her, and then still can't admit it. It's lame, and this type of scapegoating, both in the stories and from the fans, is reason #2 why I absolutely can not stand the character.

    It's too bad Rosenberg is going to chain Jean back to him (on top of the rest of his bad take on her).

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Peanutsinspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Wrong she wasn't his therapist, it does matter if she has a license, is paid, is taking clinical notes she wasn't acting in any professional capacity. He came to her because he felt alive when he was around her. And his marriage was dead. He came for sex. Which is apparent as all they did was swap fantasies of their favorite sex positions. Which is what was bothering Cyclops in the first place. He wanted to try new sex things since Apocalypse brought certain thoughts to the fire front. And was embarrassed not depressed but embarrassed
    He went to Emma initially to work on his marriage to Jean. The only way Emma even roped him into the "thought sharing" was by dressing up and pretending to be Jean.

    Also, she was his therapist.





    Last edited by Peanutsinspace; 08-21-2018 at 05:16 PM.

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    lol Emma was not his therapist. And she certainly didn't rape him.

    I don't get the fandom for a character who can't admit when he wants to bang a girl, does bang her, and then still can't admit it. It's lame, and this type of scapegoating, both in the stories and from the fans, is reason #2 why I absolutely can not stand the character.

    It's too bad Rosenberg is going to chain Jean back to him (on top of the rest of his bad take on her).
    I can't with all the excuses fandom finds for Scott. They even blame Jean for it.

    Therapists doesn't use panties on their therapies sessions, just a tip for anyone that may need it.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    No Jean later says Scott needs you and comes to terms with the fact that he loves Emma.
    That's Jean's opinion, not Scott's. Or are we doing the whole, their marriage is deeply broken but she can still speak on his behalf thing? Never at any one point that Jean is alive does Scott say he loves, or chooses Emma.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Scott even chose Emma and that's confirmed in Endsong.
    Jean was already dead. No choice remained. Regardless HCT had already occurred. PhoenixJean choose Emma for Scott. Scott never chose her of his own volition. It may not be convenient, but that story happened, and effected everything that came after, including Endsong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    She accomopanied him on Cerebra and them sharing their fantasies in NXM 121 iirc. Their talks were about fantasies and him wanting to try new stuff during sex. And Emma made him all sweaty and hot. Frost wasn't his therapist she wasn't acting in that manner she wasn't getting paid for it. Playing therapist/patient was as much a fantasy as playing Phoenix.
    Actually didn't the Cuckoos' say it was Emma's thoughts about Scott that were all sweaty and hot? Regardless, that ain't love either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    We saw him getting sweaty with Emma and even going to the hellfire club to get off. He wasn't depressed not by the dsm v guidelines anyway
    Wasn't that the beginning of the Assault on Weapon Plus arc? Scott had just been confronted by his wife. In no way was he at the hellfire club to "get off". If anything he was there to get shitfaced drunk because of the mess the whole situation had become.

    Maybe he wasn't depressed. Perhaps you could consult the DSM on the symptoms of possession by a vile and malevolent being are?

  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanutsinspace View Post
    He went to Emma initially to work on his marriage to Jean. The only way Emma even roped him into the "thought sharing" was by dressing up and pretending to be Jean.

    Also, she was his therapist.





    Again not acting in any professional capacity even if you want to believe that she really is a qualified sex therapist. She was acting in the capacity as a friend. And Cyclops issues was that he wanted to try new things sex wise and was embarrassed. Wolverine even said to him Jean would be happy to try those things he just needs to tell her.
    He went to Emma to talk about sexual fantasies he was having and try them.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Again not acting in any professional capacity even if you want to believe that she really is a qualified sex therapist. She was acting in the capacity as a friend. And Cyclops issues was that he wanted to try new things sex wise and was embarrassed. Wolverine even said to him Jean would be happy to try those things he just needs to tell her.
    He went to Emma to talk about sexual fantasies he was having and try them.
    Scott just wanted to try new sex things without having to bother his "perfect wife". At least Jean being perfect it was how he viewed Jean, he was afraid of her not accepting it.
    I don't think Scott knew Jean at all

  9. #69
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    That's Jean's opinion, not Scott's. Or are we doing the whole, their marriage is deeply broken but she can still speak on his behalf thing? Never at any one point that Jean is alive does Scott say he loves, or chooses Emma.
    What does that matter be chose Emma as confirmed in Endsong. Scott didn't end the marriage despite wanting and longing for another women?



    Jean was already dead. No choice remained. Regardless HCT had already occurred. PhoenixJean choose Emma for Scott. Scott never chose her of his own volition. It may not be convenient, but that story happened, and effected everything that came after, including Endsong.
    No Phoenix removed Cyclops guilt. She didn't change his mind as his mind was set on Emma. But he felt guilty how he treated Jean and wanted to suffer instead of be happy with Emma.


    Actually didn't the Cuckoos' say it was Emma's thoughts about Scott that were all sweaty and hot? Regardless, that ain't love either.
    Scott was sweaty and naked in the same panel. Who cares if it ain't love he wanted sex.


    Wasn't that the beginning of the Assault on Weapon Plus arc? Scott had just been confronted by his wife. In no way was he at the hellfire club to "get off". If anything he was there to get shitfaced drunk because of the mess the whole situation had become.
    He went to stare at hellfire club girls. Plenty of bars nearby without them.

    Maybe he wasn't depressed. Perhaps you could consult the DSM on the symptoms of possession by a vile and malevolent being are?
    It explained in the story what he was going through. He was having seedy thoughts and sexual fantasies and was embarrassed. Nothing more then that. So no not mentally ill

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Scott just wanted to try new sex things without having to bother his "perfect wife". At least Jean being perfect it was how he viewed Jean, he was afraid of her not accepting it.
    I don't think Scott knew Jean at all
    Exactly that's what was stated. He didn't want Jean to see him as some dirty pervert

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    No Jean later says Scott needs you and comes to terms with the fact that he loves Emma. Scott even chose Emma and that's confirmed in Endsong. She accomopanied him on Cerebra and them sharing their fantasies in NXM 121 iirc. Their talks were about fantasies and him wanting to try new stuff during sex. And Emma made him all sweaty and hot. Frost wasn't his therapist she wasn't acting in that manner she wasn't getting paid for it. Playing therapist/patient was as much a fantasy as playing Phoenix.

    We saw him eating and sleeping fine. We saw him getting sweaty with Emma and even going to the hellfire club to get off. He wasn't depressed not by the dsm v guidelines anyway
    We don't have a single panel of Scott's feelings for Emma being developed in New X-Men; Jean doesn't assert anything regarding Scott's feelings towards Emma, and they're only elaborated on later in Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, when Scott himself says that things have changed because he loves Emma now. I could be wrong of course, feel free to correct me if that's the case.

    It occurred to me as I was typing this that the majority of these arguments are moot anyways; very little from Morrison's run has been used in any significant way or has been altered beyond his intention or retconned or just badly handled by editorial. So many of the talking points I've seen here have even been outright contradicted by Marvel themselves, including my own.

  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I think that you could argue that Emma did take advantage of him to an extent, but i'm not sure if Scott was unable to give proper consent... is really difficult to determine for me.

    That being said i think that he has feelings for Emma before HCT, Jean only free him for his guilt about then, even if you think of her as his rapist, sometimes the victim party develop feelings for the other..... is a horrible thing, but it does happen, more reason for me to not really like it.

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Again not acting in any professional capacity even if you want to believe that she really is a qualified sex therapist. She was acting in the capacity as a friend. And Cyclops issues was that he wanted to try new things sex wise and was embarrassed. Wolverine even said to him Jean would be happy to try those things he just needs to tell her.
    He went to Emma to talk about sexual fantasies he was having and try them.
    Wooh how did Wolverine knew what kind of sex Jean liked lmfao
    Last edited by bell; 08-21-2018 at 05:38 PM.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    We don't have a single panel of Scott's feelings for Emma being developed in New X-Men; Jean doesn't assert anything regarding Scott's feelings towards Emma, and they're only elaborated on later in Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, when Scott himself says that things have changed because he loves Emma now. I could be wrong of course, feel free to correct me if that's the case.

    It occurred to me as I was typing this that the majority of these arguments are moot anyways; very little from Morrison's run has been used in any significant way or has been altered beyond his intention or retconned or just badly handled by editorial. So many of the talking points I've seen here have even been outright contradicted by Marvel themselves, including my own.
    When Jean fixes Emma she says Scott needs you. Whether he wanted lust with Emma and then he actually fell in love in Whedons run sure. But he chose Emma according to Endsong.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    What does that matter be chose Emma as confirmed in Endsong. Scott didn't end the marriage despite wanting and longing for another women?





    No Phoenix removed Cyclops guilt. She didn't change his mind as his mind was set on Emma. But he felt guilty how he treated Jean and wanted to suffer instead of be happy with Emma.




    Scott was sweaty and naked in the same panel. Who cares if it ain't love he wanted sex.




    He went to stare at hellfire club girls. Plenty of bars nearby without them.



    It explained in the story what he was going through. He was having seedy thoughts and sexual fantasies and was embarrassed. Nothing more then that. So no not mentally ill
    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Exactly that's what was stated. He didn't want Jean to see him as some dirty pervert
    All of this is about to be retconned lol

    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    When Jean fixes Emma she says Scott needs you. Whether he wanted lust with Emma and then he actually fell in love in Whedons run sure. But he chose Emma according to Endsong.
    Endsong is also effectively not in canon anymore.
    Last edited by Disciple of Redd; 08-21-2018 at 05:38 PM.

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