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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Piskor's hatred of Jott stems from the same place as Claremont's: Scott walking out on Madelyne to be with Jean in X-Factor vol. 1 #1.

    I'm too lazy to Google it right now, but a while back there was an interview with the two of them together, and the subject came up.
    I think I found it!

    Piskor: It was very jarring, even as a little boy reading this stuff, because it was very abrupt when he left his wife, Madelyne and child to go with this newly resurrected Jean. I just chalked it up to maybe I’ll understand it when I’m older. And I have to say that I’m older, and it’s still a very abrupt and probably the least heroic thing that he could do. Where I’m at right now in the series is a little bit after the introduction of Caliban. And all that I’m thinking about is, how am I going to finesse removing Scott from Madelyne in a way that we can still empathize with the character? That was a dick move on his part, and there are many examples of this, where it’s very clear that there were editorial mandates that you had to meander around, or just try to make work. It would create a disconnect for a certain amount of time, until the reader understood this is the world we live in.
    Here's the whole thing: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...grand-des.html

  2. #752
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Aside from a couple of brief interludes, Jott has already been on ice for 17 years.

    And, no, Tyke/Jeen doesn't count.
    because jean was dead and then cyclops were dead. so for 14 years it is on hold because they arent alive on the same time

  3. #753
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    i really hope that regardless of whatever happens with this rectangle at least marvel learns and makes scott a bit less of a jerk. he can be a good character, person, love interest but stuff like this doesn't make him look like one
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 10-22-2018 at 09:49 AM.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    I think I found it!

    Here's the whole thing: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...grand-des.html
    Yep. That's it.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    because jean was dead and then cyclops were dead. so for 14 years it is on hold because they arent alive on the same time
    ...which counts as "on ice."

    Scott and Jean haven't been together and functional as a couple since "Eve of Destruction" in 2001.

  6. #756
    Mighty Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    i really hope that regardless of whatever happens with this rectangle at least marvel learns and makes scott a bit less of a jerk. he can be a good character, person, love interest but stuff like this doesn't make him look like one
    I wouldn't mind if Scott's characterization for the last decade is ignored when he comes back. I know a lot of Cyclops fans would disagree but he doesn't need to really be Rightclops anymore.

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    i really hope that regardless of whatever happens with this rectangle at least marvel learns and makes scott a bit less of a jerk. he can be a good character, person, love interest but stuff like this doesn't make him look like one
    At bottom, there are two irreconcilable takes on the character: 1) the OG idealistic, heroic version - the disabled, abused orphan who found his soulmate and became an honorable, respectable leader and 2) the cynical revisionist, anti-heroic version - the tactically brilliant, but personally screwed up and deeply neurotic pragmatist who tries too hard to be a better man than he is. The optimistic, triumphalist narrative and the pessimistic, deconstructive narrative. BoyScott and RightClops.

    Just as there's a split in fandom over which version is the "true" Cyclops, there's an identical split among comics writers and editors. Which version sees publication, and whether he's paired with Jean or with Emma, will always depend on which faction runs the X-franchise editorial office. Creators who favor BoyScott will pair him with Jean; those who favor RightClops will pair him with Emma. Over the long term, I expect we'll see Scott bounce back and forth for years on end as each creator faction cycles in and out of power.

  8. #758
    Mighty Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    At bottom, there are two irreconcilable takes on the character: 1) the OG idealistic, heroic version - the disabled, abused orphan who found his soulmate and became an honorable, respectable leader and 2) the cynical revisionist, anti-heroic version - the tactically brilliant, but personally screwed up and deeply neurotic pragmatist who tries too hard to be a better man than he is. The optimistic, triumphalist narrative and the pessimistic, deconstructive narrative. BoyScott and RightClops.

    Just as there's a split in fandom over which version is the "true" Cyclops, there's an identical split among comics writers and editors. Which version sees publication, and whether he's paired with Jean or with Emma, will always depend on which faction runs the X-franchise editorial office. Creators who favor BoyScott will pair him with Jean; those who favor RightClops will pair him with Emma. Over the long term, I expect we'll see Scott bounce back and forth for years on end as each creator faction cycles in and out of power.
    Is there any character with such a split fanbase?

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    Is there any character with such a split fanbase?
    None that I remember with such a deep one as Cyclops.

    There are, naturally, splits between fans. See Batman, there are people who prefer either Batgod or a more human Batman. There are people who argue whether Bruce Wayne or Batman is the mask. But the thing with Cyclops seems a bit worse because it's on a different sphere. The split is more on how Cyclops vision of the world should be, Batman's on how writers should handle him. The only real consistency in how writers view Scott is the self-loathing, I think.

  10. #760
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    I wouldn't mind if Scott's characterization for the last decade is ignored when he comes back. I know a lot of Cyclops fans would disagree but he doesn't need to really be Rightclops anymore.
    I’d personally just like a gradual walk towards either side and not an abrupt change.

  11. #761
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I’d personally just like a gradual walk towards either side and not an abrupt change.
    It's not as irreconcilable as one might think. Rightclops desperately wants to be BoyScott but doesn't think he can ever come close to being that again. If a writer enables that to become reachable then the two visions can be reconciled with each other. It would make for a good story.

    As much as I disparage Bendis for getting the voices wrong and being unable to properly finish anything, he tends to get the characters mostly right (Dazzler being an exception).

  12. #762
    Fantastic Member FeniSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    It's not as irreconcilable as one might think. Rightclops desperately wants to be BoyScott but doesn't think he can ever come close to being that again. If a writer enables that to become reachable then the two visions can be reconciled with each other. It would make for a good story.

    As much as I disparage Bendis for getting the voices wrong and being unable to properly finish anything, he tends to get the characters mostly right (Dazzler being an exception).
    I think acknowledging that everything he did in the stories in the last years actually ended up fulfilling its purpose, with mutantkind is thriving again, should be enough to start this transition. There's no need for extreme extremes anymore, so to speak, so he could gradually settle back into BoyScott. Still, as mentioned up-thread, that happening and how long it sticks depends on who's running the asylum at any given time, so we'll see.

  13. #763
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    It's not as irreconcilable as one might think. Rightclops desperately wants to be BoyScott but doesn't think he can ever come close to being that again. If a writer enables that to become reachable then the two visions can be reconciled with each other. It would make for a good story.

    As much as I disparage Bendis for getting the voices wrong and being unable to properly finish anything, he tends to get the characters mostly right (Dazzler being an exception).
    I was just going to type up a similar sentiment - I think bridging the gap between these interpretations could give us the best Cyclops of all.

  14. #764
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    I wouldn't mind if Scott's characterization for the last decade is ignored when he comes back. I know a lot of Cyclops fans would disagree but he doesn't need to really be Rightclops anymore.
    Because retcons always make everything better.

    I'm a huge hater of dark and gritty and edgy. But why shouldn't Scott be cynical and jaded and just plain pissed off?

    He's died once for a while, and multiple other times for short periods of time. He's had to bury his wife... twice. He had to stop his ex-wife from destroying the world, and while possessed by an absurdly powerful cosmic entity, he nearly killed his girlfriend, then murdered his mentor. And what happened for mutants?

    NOTHING!!!!!!

    Their status is every bit as bad as it was before House of M. Any progress gets reverted every six months or so. His most positive effort was forgotten within six months in his time and two weeks in ours. Yes there aren't fewer than 400 mutants on the planet anymore, but that's just bringing things back to normal. Not better, just not worse.

    I can completely see how he'd be utterly sick of the fight and trying to win through pacifistic means.

  15. #765
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because retcons always make everything better.

    I'm a huge hater of dark and gritty and edgy. But why shouldn't Scott be cynical and jaded and just plain pissed off?

    He's died once for a while, and multiple other times for short periods of time. He's had to bury his wife... twice. He had to stop his ex-wife from destroying the world, and while possessed by an absurdly powerful cosmic entity, he nearly killed his girlfriend, then murdered his mentor. And what happened for mutants?

    NOTHING!!!!!!

    Their status is every bit as bad as it was before House of M. Any progress gets reverted every six months or so. His most positive effort was forgotten within six months in his time and two weeks in ours. Yes there aren't fewer than 400 mutants on the planet anymore, but that's just bringing things back to normal. Not better, just not worse.

    I can completely see how he'd be utterly sick of the fight and trying to win through pacifistic means.
    That is just nature of comics. Scott doesn't has the same reasons to be rightclops, mutants aren't on the edge of extinction

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