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  1. #76
    Fantastic Member Sundown's Avatar
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    I thought Marvel portrayed Scott as a lousy person as far as his treatment of women, but it made him seem very human at the same time. He's no hero in his personal life, just a guy, and not one you'd want your sister or daughter or niece to date. It makes for an interesting character.

    I found he and Emma to be far more interesting together than he and Jean ever were. They were broken together, and that made a pretty compelling couple.

    Scott and Jean were more like an old habit. It read like they didn't truly see one another, just what they wanted the other person to be. They were the high school sweethearts who grew up together, and never realized they grew apart, just kept going through the same motions. I also disliked that Jean was used for Scott's character development, whereas the reverse wasn't true.

    I'm ambivalent on Logan and Jean together. I see the context from early days -- the PF was, in part, a parallel for Jean's sexuality and Logan was the dangerous outlet for that repressed passion, whereas Scott was just the habit. I never really understood Logan's undying (unrequited) love for her, as he didn't seem to have a connection on anything but a sexual level. The same goes for her.

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bell View Post
    Wooh how did Wolverine knew what kind of sex Jean liked lmfao
    Something called talking with people. or just observation, wolverine is experient enough to know what a woman want. Or just that if Jean love \cyclops she would understand.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Scott just wanted to try new sex things without having to bother his "perfect wife". At least Jean being perfect it was how he viewed Jean, he was afraid of her not accepting it.
    I don't think Scott knew Jean at all
    I think the majority of Jean fans (even the ones who don't like Scott) and Scott fans (even the ones who don't like Jean) can admit that their characterization was one of if not the worst thing about Morrison's run. Nothing in their history would suggest that Scott wouldn't have shared with Jean or that she wouldn't reciprocate, not even the immediate fallout from Scott's possession before Morrison's run - and I say that as someone who generally liked Morrison's run, he clearly didn't know or didn't bother to take into account the characters' history. He admitted all of this himself. Scott did know Jean and she knew him. Morrison has no excuse to have fumbled that up so badly, someone of his skills should've been able to get from A to B without harming the characters so much. Or, obviously, killing Jean.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bell View Post
    Wooh how did Wolverine knew what kind of sex Jean liked lmfao
    I can't tell you where, but it was alluded somewhere that Jean looked in on Logan's fantasies once and liked what she saw there. Scott and Logan are probably similar in that regard, though one is more cowardly than the other.

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    All of this is about to be retconned lol


    Endsong is also effectively not in canon anymore.
    How so? Brevoort said it wasn't Jean just a zombie reanimated as Jean?
    Fraction said that wasn't Jean and was Emma's mind in the sisterhood manifesting as a nightmare and breaking the spell of the Red Queen. Which Emma actually states in the issue as she's beaten it
    And Emma states the Jean in Aaron's wolverine. In his mind scape was fake.

    The only time Jean showed up was when Scott reached out to her in the Whr in Avx

    Also found Cyclops thoughts on Emma in New X-Men and Wolverine telling him Jean would have approved of those fantasies
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I think the majority of Jean fans (even the ones who don't like Scott) and Scott fans (even the ones who don't like Jean) can admit that their characterization was one of if not the worst thing about Morrison's run. Nothing in their history would suggest that Scott wouldn't have shared with Jean or that she wouldn't reciprocate, not even the immediate fallout from Scott's possession before Morrison's run - and I say that as someone who generally liked Morrison's run, he clearly didn't know or didn't bother to take into account the characters' history. He admitted all of this himself. Scott did know Jean and she knew him. Morrison has no excuse to have fumbled that up so badly, someone of his skills should've been able to get from A to B without harming the characters so much. Or, obviously, killing Jean.
    You wouldn't get any argument for me in that one, bith Scott and Jean had some interesting moments, the portrayal of their relationship sucked.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    When Jean fixes Emma she says Scott needs you. Whether he wanted lust with Emma and then he actually fell in love in Whedons run sure. But he chose Emma according to Endsong.
    I agree, but need is different from love, and choosing Emma wouldn't have and doesn't mean he loved her then either. Essentially, Jean saying Scott needed Emma simply means that she believed that what Scott required then she could no longer provide, whatever you might think that is.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    I can't tell you where, but it was alluded somewhere that Jean looked in on Logan's fantasies once and liked what she saw there. Scott and Logan are probably similar in that regard, though one is more cowardly than the other.
    Why would she be looking at his fantasies and she like the thoughs she saw in him.

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I'm ambivalent on Logan and Jean together. I see the context from early days -- the PF was, in part, a parallel for Jean's sexuality and Logan was the dangerous outlet for that repressed passion, whereas Scott was just the habit. I never really understood Logan's undying (unrequited) love for her, as he didn't seem to have a connection on anything but a sexual level. The same goes for her.
    Originally Claremont didn't know what to do with Logan until Byrne came, so he tried to make it a romantic rival of sorts, then it was just pettynes for what happened with Maddie. In universe, it seems that there is "something" on Jean that bring his worst side (totally not anti ship bias here ).

  10. #85
    Fantastic Member Sundown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Originally Claremont didn't know what to do with Logan until Byrne came, so he tried to make it a romantic rival of sorts, then it was just pettynes for what happened with Maddie. In universe, it seems that there is "something" on Jean that bring his worst side (totally not anti ship bias here ).
    Hahaha...wouldn't have guessed.

    I suppose Logan/Jean just isn't a pairing I ever really got into. I don't despise it, but I don't really feel it, either.

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I think that you could argue that Emma did take advantage of him to an extent, but i'm not sure if Scott was unable to give proper consent... is really difficult to determine for me.

    That being said i think that he has feelings for Emma before HCT, Jean only free him for his guilt about then, even if you think of her as his rapist, sometimes the victim party develop feelings for the other..... is a horrible thing, but it does happen, more reason for me to not really like it.
    Scott knew very well what he was doing. He was a ully consenting adult



    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I think the majority of Jean fans (even the ones who don't like Scott) and Scott fans (even the ones who don't like Jean) can admit that their characterization was one of if not the worst thing about Morrison's run. Nothing in their history would suggest that Scott wouldn't have shared with Jean or that she wouldn't reciprocate, not even the immediate fallout from Scott's possession before Morrison's run - and I say that as someone who generally liked Morrison's run, he clearly didn't know or didn't bother to take into account the characters' history. He admitted all of this himself. Scott did know Jean and she knew him. Morrison has no excuse to have fumbled that up so badly, someone of his skills should've been able to get from A to B without harming the characters so much. Or, obviously, killing Jean.
    If he wrote them in character, they would just worlk out their problems. Morrison is much more plot focused than character drivn

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member bell's Avatar
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    My dislike for a character happens because this place, it happen with Storm and now with Jean. Jean more then Storm though.

    Poor little saint Jean was hurt by mean Cyke and the evil Emma.


    I know of a few Jean's fans that are not like this. I know of Cyke fans that defend him.

    He cheated, but she was no saint eighter. Lets not forget Scott 1st wife. Both Jean and Scott are to blame for breaking up a family there. Ohh wait no this is about poor saint Jean........

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Well Morrison was originally going to have Storm instead of Emma have an affair with Scott

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    You wouldn't get any argument for me in that one, bith Scott and Jean had some interesting moments, the portrayal of their relationship sucked.
    Yeah, I've said many times before that if Morrison was hellbent on putting Scott with Emma, there were a few ways of doing so without hurting (or killing) anybody. Of course, ardent Jott fans argue that if Jean and Scott are alive simultaneously then there's no keeping them apart - but I think an attempt should've been made to see how that story might've played out (no Schism or AvX?). Of course, Jeen and Tyke have been around for a long time and all that that's given us is milquetoast imitations of the characters that are perpetually stuck in the "will they, won't they" phase, so maybe the rule isn't infallible.

  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, I've said many times before that if Morrison was hellbent on putting Scott with Emma, there were a few ways of doing so without hurting (or killing) anybody. Of course, ardent Jott fans argue that if Jean and Scott are alive simultaneously then there's no keeping them apart - but I think an attempt should've been made to see how that story might've played out (no Schism or AvX?). Of course, Jeen and Tyke have been around for a long time and all that that's given us is milquetoast imitations of the characters that are perpetually stuck in the "will they, won't they" phase, so maybe the rule isn't infallible.
    Jean was going to die from the start of his run before he even learnt Emma was available. As every X-Men Generation deserves their own Phoenix Saga as per Morrison

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