Omega(Anima) vs Justice League(DCEU)

[BitVyper]

Sorry if my posts here are brusque; I’m posting from work when I should be installing kitchens

[Sharpandpointies]

That's extremely fast.

Superman moves at speeds that make Wonder Woman appear to be a frozen statue in comparison. She herself is a very high end bullet timer. Where do we figure that puts Clark??

That's a good question.

A high end bullet-timer is...what? At most, mach speed? Aguably somewhat above mach?

Mach 26 is 26 times faster than that, which...would make Mach speed look like a statue as well.

...that's base form Omega. And that's just going by Dex/Agility comparisons. If we're going by the actual fluff, Omega (Lord of Infinity version) is better in every way than a guy who deals with hypersonic projectiles as TRAINING.

I'd argue that puts him in the area where he can fight someone who is hypersonic fairly easily, then. That's not even getting into what happens once he fires up a Ki Technique that slows the world down around him/speeds him up to many times his previous speed, which the fluff of the technique states it does.

[Sharpandpointies]

Sorry if my posts here are brusque; I’m posting from work when I should be installing kitchens

It's all good, man.

Discussions are discussions. Hopefully I'm not giving offense, myself -- not the plan.

Makes for a fun discussion.

[BitVyper]

So my real point was that he’s noooot really that strong for his actual level considering what you can do without really using powers other than as presented. Edit: To clarify, this had to do with discussing what his numbers mean for his ability to actively defend himself in the scale of the system. Negotiating the difference between what the stats describe and what Superman has for feats is weird because in anima being effectively FTL gives you a whole five point defence bonus over a high end bullet timer, which is ludicrous when considered in any other context. But it makes talking about any vast speed difference hard

Getting off that, it just reminded me that I was thinking of building a super computer out of psychic homunculi with a geased intelligent construct for an administrator and I was like,”wait, did I just build Brainiac?”

[Sharpandpointies]

So my real point was that he’s noooot really that strong for his actual level considering what you can do without really using powers other than as presented.

There is certainly truth in that.

The issue with guys like Omega is that 16th level only goes so far with character points. And he spends character points on stuff like Existential Barrier, and other crazy bonus things, and that eats into his attack/defend and other base things (okay, mostly his skills, but still).

And yeah, he's missing the craziness of having The Gift. But that's just initially.

However, my feeling is that this dude isn't meant to be going up against a twinked-out, 'prepped to fight Omega with full knowledge of his capabilities' group of PCs which, let's face it, all of these 'below Omega's level' plans require. In an arena.

In any 'normal' encounter between Omega and a lower level group of characters, they're not going to have the exact stuff ready to take him on, they shouldn't know all of his capabilities, and he is going to monster all over them. They're probably also not going to be massively loaded down with shimmering magic with a gazillion 'hung' spells as well, due to...well, it's GAIA. That kind of thing makes people nervous, and level 10's walking around with that kind of stuff 'up and running' all of the time might lead to some pretty interesting encounters, itself. ^_^

This leads to the wonderful, in-game experience of the players actually being forced to flee for their lives, do research, and hopefully come up with plan to deal with him before he whacks a bunch of powerful guys and layers stuff like The Gift onto his already-impressive powerset.

Given his vast powers, intelligence, recon of the world, and ability to steal stuff to make himself MORE personally powerful, it's not a stretch to say that in short order, in-game (ie, a scenario in-game where he breaks out of his prison), Omega becomes easily a civilization-ending threat (I mean...he approaches that to start with). Heck, we could say that if Omega does his own research, it's not out of the question that he could prep for the players, as well (tit-for-tat...).

And that's his real danger. That a 'regular' group of players needs to act with what they know and try to stop him before he obviates all of their prep by chowing down on a few potent people and becoming something different. "Haha, Sweep from the Heavens no longer works, thanks to the Creation Magic buffs I just tossed on my Resistance Rolls!" No need for Projection to do THAT.

And yeah, in a straight up fight, a bunch of solid level 14-15 Players should be able to take it to him; lacking the kind of bizarre artifacts that Kagome, Kisidan, and Nerelas have to bolster themselves (as well as their special statuses and character-specific powers), I don't think they have the same odds, but I'd give them DECENT odds of just winning a loooong and ugly battle (certainly against Lucifer, assuming Omega stops in that form, which he would 'normally' do unless the GM is feeling especially like doing another marathon battle by bringing in the Lord of Infinity).

And above that, things just get worse for him.

He's an interesting exercise in 'making up a potent force that, even so, isn't unbeatable.' They've covered a lot of bases with him. They just didn't account for Sweep From The Heavens, other than Omega saying 'Nope' and swatting the spell out of the air. Or getting another shot at it by using his Ars Magnus.

I honestly wonder about Sweep from the Heavens. I mean...it's a thing in the setting that Imperium goes to great lengths to deal with high Gnosis beings -- Soul Weapons, harrying them into dimensions that limit their powers, using grotesquely potent spiritually-based magitek-mecha to kill them. Etc.

But someone with Sweep From The Heavens can basically set that up with a single spell.

...granted, it's High Magic, and thus requires a substantial investment in Metamagic OR playing the Chimera card, but really, Protodeus Imperium Warlocks (and they have them!) shouldn't have a problem with this kind of thing.

Edit: Because I feel like it, Imperium!

[Sharpandpointies]

Edit: To clarify, this had to do with discussing what his numbers mean for his ability to actively defend himself in the scale of the system. Negotiating the difference between what the stats describe and what Superman has for feats is weird because in anima being effectively FTL gives you a whole five point defence bonus over a high end bullet timer, which is ludicrous when considered in any other context. But it makes talking about any vast speed difference hard.

There's that.

For me, the difference on a solid, stat basis would actually come from Attack/Defend into the 'disappears from view' with Inhumanity for Bullet-time, inhumanity noted as being a prerequisite to parrying bullets or dodging them after they've been fired (modern bullets!). And Attack/Defend at Zen level for Lightspeed.

It...seems to fit. Especially since speed isn't just 'Dex and Agility' in Anime, but somehow worked into Attack/Defend skills (attack/defend actually being a better indication of 'speed' than just Dex or Agility).

That's my opinion on what I'd like to see for claims that someone is ~lightspeed in Anima: Zen attack/defend (which Omega doesn't have, but is substantially above 'normal people cannot even see him fight' level, and has dexterity corresponding with speeds necessary to reach hypersonic, soooo it feels like roughly a decent place to peg him, corroborated by the Kisidan fluff stuff).

Getting off that, it just reminded me that I was thinking of building a super computer out of psychic homunculi with a geased intelligent construct for an administrator and I was like,”wait, did I just build Brainiac?”

Hopefully the GM isn't a jerk and manipulates the free Homunculi points in odd ways.... ^_^

Might you fire some numbers at me via PM? I'm curious, now.

[BitVyper]

Oh it’s entirely something I thought up for the sake of digging too greedily and too deep. My warlock isn’t named Saffron Huitzitli Godsbane Marvelous because she does things halfway. I will pm you when I get home. Or if you have trillion, steam, or discord, shoot it to me

[Sharpandpointies]

Oh it’s entirely something I thought up for the sake of digging too greedily and too deep. My warlock isn’t named Saffron Huitzitli Godsbane Marvelous because she does things halfway. I will pm you when I get home. Or if you have trillion, steam, or discord, shoot it to me

I'm Solomon BEFORE the twenty pieces. ^_^ I don't have any of those things, so it'll have to be PM.

But I'm most certainly curious, as well.

[Beadle]

My bad on the distance/speed thing. It’s been a while.

Requires Gnosis 45 to function against him.

Now, I don't know any way of getting Gnosis 45. Suffice to say, it has been tried many a time on the forum, and every time shot down. The CLOSEST I've seen is someone using Chimera and Dark Ascension and Light Ascension, with requires some really interesting manipulation of the rules and ignoring the fact that one can't stack bonuses like that (and someone capable of casting the Ascensions to start with...). Or having a buddy use Dark Ascension on them, which again...requires a buddy capable of casting divine magic. Which would require a node, or a buddy who happens to be a Gnosis 45 God-being. In which case we're not exactly talking bog-standard 10th level person, but someone who has been given some pretty amazing gimmies by their GM.

Try Sweep from the Heavens. It works better. ^_^

Again, it’s been a while since those discussions on the forum (and your memory is waaaaaay better than mine), but how did we debunk the one involving Lord of Nightmares potentially boosting you to 40 and allowing you to cast Divine stuff in the Wake, then building Gnosis from there before leaving the Wake. I mean it gets horribly complex, but all these plots tend to.

But yeah, Sweep from the Heavens followed by Judgment Reversed (if you have a Summoner who can get that pact) will render him Gnosis-less.

I actually can’t remember what his Gnosis is to begin with, so if it’s ‘only’ 40, you don’t even need the Sweep from the Heavens. Save your Zeon for blatting the crap out of it.

[Sharpandpointies]

The Judgement Reversed is a pretty good one, aside from the fact that any high-level character tends to not have it, as getting it is...um...not easy. O_o Despite being High Magic, Sweep from the Heavens is much 'easier' to get (without the GM giving enormous gimmes).

The Lord of Nightmares/Dreams thing is kind of open to discussion, but the two potential pitfalls I recall ran as follows (different possible interpretations):

1. It's only the ABILITIES of level 40 gnosis, not the actual capacity to cast Divine magic;
2. Stuff that is maintained stays maintained as long as the person stays in the area of the Lord of Nightmares caster's power. Outside of that area...especially if they leave the Wake...poof. Spell goes bye-bye. Which makes sense to me.

Either way, it's utterly ridiculous to have a spell allowing a non-High Mage to actually fire off workable and fully functional divine magic (without needing to access a node and risk asploding himself), so there has to be some kind of checks and balances.

[Beadle]

It’s hard to get, granted, but not IMPOSSIBLE. Just have to choose an enemy who doesn’t hate you back. ;p (Joke). But it’s doable. It’s way easier to get than the World Reversed, for example.

That one roughly translates as ‘The only way to obtain this Arcana is to have failed at all your life goals and lost everything. And yet somehow have survived long enough to be able to succeed in casting a 460-difficulty Summon.’

[Sharpandpointies]

It’s hard to get, granted, but not IMPOSSIBLE. Just have to choose an enemy who doesn’t hate you back. ;p (Joke). But it’s doable. It’s way easier to get than the World Reversed, for example.

There are some summons I just don't feel are worth the effort. By the time one arrives at a level where that one is useful (and you can give it a try with sufficient oomph to succeed - difficulty 440), your 'worst' enemy who hates your guts (we're not talking 'friendly rivals', here...) is likely someone you do not wish to have power over you.

That one roughly translates as ‘The only way to obtain this Arcana is to have failed at all your life goals and lost everything. And yet somehow have survived long enough to be able to succeed in casting a 460-difficulty Summon.’

...actually...

You have to try the summon and FAIL. Specifically.

Edit: which sounds like it's a shoe-in for low-level people who haven't HAD much of a life, and maybe it is. But then it's useless until that person can regularly pull off a 460 roll summons to actually access its power. ^_^

[The Arbiter]

Just assuming for sake of argument that they have speed parity, what would a chop from Superman wielding Wonder Woman's sword accomplish?

[Beadle]

Just assuming for sake of argument that they have speed parity, what would a chop from Superman wielding Wonder Woman's sword accomplish?

If Superman doesn’t have Gnosis 45 (and he wouldn’t have), nothing much.

[Beadle]

There are some summons I just don't feel are worth the effort. By the time one arrives at a level where that one is useful (and you can give it a try with sufficient oomph to succeed - difficulty 440), your 'worst' enemy who hates your guts (we're not talking 'friendly rivals', here...) is likely someone you do not wish to have power over you.

Oh, absolutely. But then if it comes to ‘Either Omega ends the world or I take one for the team and put my cock on the block for my worst enemy’, it’s gonna be the latter.

...actually...

You have to try the summon and FAIL. Specifically.

Edit: which sounds like it's a shoe-in for low-level people who haven't HAD much of a life, and maybe it is. But then it's useless until that person can regularly pull off a 460 roll summons to actually access its power. ^_^

It’s just silly, really. It’s just screaming out for silly GMs that want to hand-wave their players stupid shit.