Superman and Lois Lane are joining the CW Fall crossover

[Superlad93]

My honest-to-goodness theory/hope is that they're either doing option A) a Superman/Superman Family show that will focus on our three leads, Superman, Lois, and Jon, or option B) a Superboy show in the mold of Smallville, but with Lois and Clark as the "Ma and Pa."

I mean, the Earths (1 and 38) are 1000000% going to merge together by the end of Crisis. That's just a given. So that leaves them even more wiggle room than Reborn had when they integrated Jon and the Superman family in. With how the whole CW show continuity plays with reality, this would be right in line.

Option B seems slightly more likely to me right now mainly because even though WB seems super cool with having Superman and Batman on TV in full glory, they seem skittish when it comes to doing a whole show about them, and just them, that'll run for a good long while. Like, we can fully expect Bruce to not just show up but suit up in Batwoman similar to Clark and Supergirl, but I don't see a Batman show.

So, to me, right now, some sort of Superboy show that fully takes advantage of the pre-teen to teen market (they currently have no show that headlines with a teen atm) seems viable ESPECIALLY in a post-Stranger Things/IT Remake world. You still get your backdoor Lois and Clark show on full blast, but WB also gets to continue being skittish by making it so it's not them headlining. Also gives them the opportunity to adapt the much loved Tomasi, Gleason, and Jurgens run. Might even get Damian out of the whole deal.

[Sacred Knight]

I really don't see either as likely. I actually think the highly probable merger gives them less wiggle room, not more, in regards to Superman himself. In the sense that they've clearly built up Supergirl as THE Super in this universe. She's numero uno, and to date really all Superman has been used for is to solidify that the torch has been passed. If the Earths merge, that doesn't leave an alternate setting for Superman to be. And from their pov it would probably have to be an alternate setting, as it doesn't fit their consistent mindset to put Superman back in action permanently on the same world as Supergirl. Not when they've went through so much trouble to minimize his involvement up to this current sabbatical/retirement. They don't want her potentially upstaged, understandably. This current playground was cultivated with her as the center. I mean, unless it was something not set in Earth at all but on Argo City/space or something. In regards to a Superboy-themed show, I don't really know if they'd put their eggs in a basket of a completely unknown commodity like that. Especially when Supergirl already does cover the pre-teen/teen market. I could more easily see a Superkid show up within Supergirl as a supporting character, if he/she were to be utilized at all beyond the occasional baby cameo. And even then there's absolutely nothing saying it would even be a boy. It could easily be a girl. That doesn't synergize with comics, but it would synergize with the current cultural movement of more focus on female heroes.

[Miles To Go]

It could easily be a girl

Joan?

[Superlad93]

I really don't see either as likely. I actually think the highly probable merger gives them less wiggle room, not more, in regards to Superman himself. In the sense that they've clearly built up Supergirl as THE Super in this universe. She's numero uno, and to date really all Superman has been used for is to solidify that the torch has been passed. If the Earths merge, that doesn't leave an alternate setting for Superman to be. And from their pov it would probably have to be an alternate setting, as it doesn't fit their consistent mindset to put Superman back in action permanently on the same world as Supergirl.

I'm not really following your logic here. How does any of this point to there not being a possibility for a Superboy or Superman Family show? That seems to point towards it more in fact because Superman would be in semi-retirement thus able to focus on family, journalistic work, and relatively smaller scale/localized or off world threats. Basically Superman from Jurgens' Lois and Clark, yes? The CW showrunners have be very, very liberal when it comes to drawing of current DC work. Look no further than Flashpoint, Kara fighting a Worldkiller and using a solar flare, and, well, Lois and Clark being married and having a kid (Jurgens even commented on how proud he was to add to the TV myths https://twitter.com/thedanjurgens/st...41394803769349)

In regards to a Superboy-themed show, I don't really know if they'd put their eggs in a basket of a completely unknown commodity like that. Especially when Supergirl already does cover the pre-teen/teen market. I could more easily see a Superkid show up within Supergirl as a supporting character.

Again, and with respect, I'm not really seeing your logic here. A Superboy-themed show is, out of all the shows running now, maybe the definition of known commodity. It would be named after a Superboy show that actually existed in the 80s, works as a spin-off from Supergirl, and, you know, would be doing basically the same formula that the CW rang out 12 seasons from and created a template that all their shows now live by, Smallville. It was Superboy in everything but name. And Supergirl, like Flash, Legends, and Arrow, work the pre-teen/teen market in terms of who is watching, yes, but, as I said in the post above, no show on the CW is actually headlined by a character who is supposed to be a pre-teen or teen. Kara is a grown woman like Oliver, Barry, and all the Legends. As I said before, this would be tapping the wildly popular Stranger Things "we love watching these awkward ass kids grow up right in front of our faces."

[Sacred Knight]

Because judging by how they've clearly set up and cultivated the idea that the torch has been passed to Kara, and limiting and now making up a reason to put Superman on sabbatical, I just find it hard to imagine Superman his own show on the same world. I mean yes, the reality is separate shows don't have to interact at all. There's no steadfast rule that they'd have to, and there's no steadfast rule that Superman co-existing with Supergirl would hurt Supergirl at all. But again I'm just looking at the way they've built up this verse from the Super mythos perspective and what they seem to want/don't want. It doesn't seem like they have any interest in Superman in any large role. I'm not saying I personally belive they can't or shouldn't co-exist, but I think after 3 seasons and basically utilizing him only to drive home the point that this is Supergirl's world now gives off a certain impression. My feeling is they don't want it shared, they're just interested in her. I just think this might be a case of Occam's Razor: this was their way of retiring Superman permanently from Supergirl's world.

A son/daughter? That might be something else, I could see that. But again my opinion is that rather than giving the idea its own spin-off show, there's less risk, more reward in having it be a character that builds even more upon the star's foundation. The star in this case being Kara, and the young kid being built as the sidekick.

None of these thoughts are saying they CAN'T do any of these ideas. At the end of the day of course I'm not in their offices. I just haven't seen anything yet to make me think any of these events were anything more than to just get Superman off Supergirl's playing field. But its worth mentioning for the sake of full disclosure that these feelings are also influenced by my belief that WB across the board is having an increasingly lack of interest in Superman, and more interest in other ways to utilize the shield. And there's no proof I'm right there either. Just feelings, which really is all any of us have.

[Yoda]

A show headlined by Rip Hunter, White Canary, Steel, Heatwave, and Atom is on its 4th season. I don’t think any show with an s-shield is too “unknown” for Berlanti & the CW.

Particularly where it'd be likely to have at the very least, Lois Lane as a co-star. I mean, Lois is arguably the first or second best known female comic character in the world. But I agree it's unlikely until Supergirl closes out her run on the CW.

[Sacred Knight]

Fair point there, they've utilized unknowns before to some success. And like I said I personally could much more imagine a Superkid becoming a thing rather Superman getting a spin-off in this verse.

[Superlad93]

Because judging by how they've clearly set up and cultivated the idea that the torch has been passed to Kara, and limiting and now making up a reason to put Superman on sabbatical, I don't see how they'd go and give Superman his own show on the same world. They obviously don't want Superman's presence overshadowing Kara so they use him sparingly.

It's because the torch has been passed that a show like Superboy or Superman Family would be possible if not likely--especially Superboy. A semi-retired Clark training a son, being a reporter, and sometimes going off world for "business trips" is set up perfectly when Kara is the biggest hero on the planet. Jon Can't overshadow her because he'd be like 14 or something and stuck with relative strength, speed, no flight, and budding vision powers. It's like Dick taking over after Bruce, and Damian training to take the spot next.

As far as the other point, Superboy is a known commodity, the character who would be Superboy is not. And again, nothing even saying this kid has to be a boy. But why would they give an entirely new show to an unknown Super character when Supergirl fills all those needs already?

I'd say there's a very, very good chance that it's Jon, but I obviously have no proof. As I said before, it's a theory/hope. And Flash, Supergirl, and Arrow were all far more unknown commodities than the basic idea of "the Son of Superman and Lois Lane stumbling through puberty and life with his parents as support." All three of the aforementioned shows are built off the back/goodwill of Smallville, so I think it's just about the least kind of a stretch to think that they'd see a show about a young kryptonian kid in high school speeding around solving problems, and, oh yeah, his dad is Superman, his mom is Lois, and his aunt is Supergirl as a unknown commodity. Like, dude, Legends of Tomorrow is a show they decide to make, so come on.

And, like I said before, Kara doesn't actually fit all the needs possible. She, nor any of the other heroes leading any of the other shows, are a teenager. No one is fumbling with growing up and deal with/working with parents as a minor. No one is even dealing with learning new powers. No one is finding and defining themselves in school. Basically, no one is dealing with what made Smallville so damn popular in the first place. That's a big ol' chunk of *motions you to scoot in closer* free real estate.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I absolutely think the Superman/Lois chunk of this was as fully intended to act as a backdoor pilot for them as the second act was for Batwoman. While the creators are clearly hedging their bets with providing them what could easily be a happily-ever-after, their appearance in this way in this context is bizarrely conspicuous and pointless if that wasn’t what was intended. They’re incidental to the plot (Deegan becoming Superman, while great fun that gives us an interesting new spin on the evil Superman concept, is basically just an aesthetic), the functionality of getting Clark away from National City had already been handled by the season premiere and never actually takes anything more than ‘he’s busy in space/plugging up a volcano/fighting Luthor’ as has already been done in the past, the guest spots and relevant emotional beats could have easily been contained to an episode of Supergirl rather than spilling out into an already stuffed three episodes, and if they could only be used in one crossover for some reason they’d obviously be saved for the next one. And they get a scene to themselves AFTER their role with our leads is wrapped up, with a moment that could have already come off-screen earlier but didn’t, purely to endear them to us in a way that would make us want to see more of them.

I’m not saying a Superman show is now guaranteed, but unless there was some bizarre instruction that they suddenly once and for all needed to permanently get rid of him - yet permitted that to be accomplished via the delivery mechanism of more Superman, in a way that’s noted as impermanent in-universe and in a context that’s going to introduce him and Lois and push them as big deals to the maximum possible number of viewers - yeah, I think that’s what the people who made this must have been intending. And that the powers that be let them is incredibly encouraging. As Tulloch said, a lot of this is out of the hands of anyone but corporate, but Elseworlds got season highs so that’s a point in their favor; hopefully Cryer works out as Luthor, because I imagine that’s the other checkmark needing to be crossed off that comes down to the response of the viewership.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Couple scattered thoughts:

* If I’m all wrong about Superman and he’s just being set up as a lamb to the slaughter for Crisis to fill the Supergirl role (which would still by no means require him appearing in Elseworlds, especially given it’s not like he develops a relationship with Barry or Oliver, so I’ll say my points all still stand), I get the impulse is to do him dying in Kara’s arms. But if they do wanna go this way and finish his story, I really, really hope that instead they let him deal at least part of the killing blow and then somehow vanish into ‘Heaven’ with Lois and Jon. If you’re gonna homage a Superman bit from there to close him out, that’s the one to go with.

* I am astonished the proposal happening after the pregnancy was announced got to go through - ‘modern’ indeed, as Cat Grant would put it. I get it’s got precedent of a sort in Superman Returns, but on the other hand, that precedent was Superman Returns. I’m surprised I’m not already seeing thinkpieces on the degradation of American Values coming out of this.

* Hoechlin was still on-point if not as much so as in his prior Supergirl appearances (I have a feeling a lot of his energy went to his performance as Deegan, which was excellent and a great new take on Evil Superman - not a god gone mad but a small man who thinks he's been made large. It’s an effective twist on Superman as a power fantasy, one that’s scary in a very different way than the idea of it going wrong usually is, because instead of him letting us down, it’s one of us joining him in the sun and trying to kick him and the rest of us out because it’s all HIS now.), but dude needs to work on his "getting thrown backwards by someone with super-strength" performance, however one does that. Tulloch's great and I think could get even better with time, easily a potential contender for at least the Lois Lane Mount Rushmore.

* People are making so much out of him losing one fight with an arguable handicap and highly praising his cousin. Of course he says she's a better person than him, he's Superman, he says things like that and means them, especially to someone he loves who's in this case the main character of another show he's guesting in. Hey, not for nothing, but he's the one who saves the world in this one, even if it comes down to Oliver, Barry, and Kara to keep it from being rebroken.

[Superlad93]

Has Superman died and come back to life on Earth 38?

If that's a no and they do decide to kill him during Crisis (not super likely given the set-up from last episode and Oliver's ominous toast with Barry) then--in this is going off the idea of a Superboy show--you could do single mom Lois for a bit, then have have Clark comeback to life at the start of the show, and play up the getting to know each other thing between father and son/reconnecting between Lois and Clark.

[manofsteel1979]

That's a good point, without Superman, Kara,Barry and Oliver would have lost and the Monitor would have left Earth 1 in ruins. Supes rewrote reality to fix things Final Crisis style here. Oliver and Co. Just made sure it stuck.

I think Olie is a dead man walking. His show is reaching it's natural end either this season or next, and his ominous remarks to Barry pretty much puts a big target on him. Plus with Batwoman coming,CW doesn't need two shows about a brooding vigilante defending a city.

Something tells me that near the end of CRISIS, there will be teases of Superman dying... hell the final battle may come to set up Supes laying down his life to save Kara and Barry and the universe,but Oliver having made his deal with Monitor, will be the one to make the sacrifice play.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Dying is the only way for Oliver to get rid of Felicity. 😅

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

With how firm dc has been with the Kents being dead in the comics, I kinda figured that it was only a matter of time before we got that status quo in other media. But Clark mentions here that his ma is still around and kicking. Personally I don’t care either way, but I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Martha Kent is pretty much unkillable as far as other media is concerned. Has she ever actually been dead in any adaptation? Pa Kent died all the time. But it seems weird having the comics kill her off when Clark was a kid when that will probably never catch on outside of comics.

[phantom1592]

With how firm dc has been with the Kents being dead in the comics, I kinda figured that it was only a matter of time before we got that status quo in other media. But Clark mentions here that his ma is still around and kicking. Personally I don’t care either way, but I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Martha Kent is pretty much unkillable as far as other media is concerned. Has she ever actually been dead in any adaptation? Pa Kent died all the time. But it seems weird having the comics kill her off when Clark was a kid when that will probably never catch on outside of comics.

She died off screen in Superman III or IV... I think IV was where he was selling off the farm (only to people who wanted it as an actual farm).