Superman and Lois Lane are joining the CW Fall crossover

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

She died off screen in Superman III or IV... I think IV was where he was selling off the farm (only to people who wanted it as an actual farm).

Oh yeah, been a while since I’ve revisited Superman 3.

[phantom1592]

I'm curious if DC will start doing what Marvel did with Netflix? Y'know... killing off shows so they can put them on their own streaming service? Flash is probably the only 'safe' one I can think of... as it's very popular and has a bit of life left to it... Arrow has nearly run its course. Supergirl has been actively trying to politically correct it's fanbase since season 2... and I'm not sure Black Lightning has found it's footing yet. Another year or so... and all the CW shows may be canceled?? Even Gotham is wrapping up.

That said, I'm not sure we WILL see any 'new' shows pop up there. There may be a Superman series in the future but I just have this nagging feeling it won't be on CW, it'll be on the DC channel. Which may or may not have any ties to Arrowverse.

[manofsteel1979]

I'm curious if DC will start doing what Marvel did with Netflix? Y'know... killing off shows so they can put them on their own streaming service? Flash is probably the only 'safe' one I can think of... as it's very popular and has a bit of life left to it... Arrow has nearly run its course. Supergirl has been actively trying to politically correct it's fanbase since season 2... and I'm not sure Black Lightning has found it's footing yet. Another year or so... and all the CW shows may be canceled?? Even Gotham is wrapping up.

That said, I'm not sure we WILL see any 'new' shows pop up there. There may be a Superman series in the future but I just have this nagging feeling it won't be on CW, it'll be on the DC channel. Which may or may not have any ties to Arrowverse.

They've pretty much confirmed Batwoman is getting her own show by 2020. Maybe even as soon as fall 2019. Supergirl and Flash are solid performers for the CW and Warner's. There's been a DC Superhero related show on CW and it's predecessor the WB since 2001. It's been a lucrative franchise and has a stable built in fanbase. until the DC streaming service proves it's viability in putting eyes on these characters, and given the film side of DC is struggling to find it's way, WB would be stupid to not continue this universe they built in some way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'm guessing with CRISIS it will no longer be seen as the Arrowverse as it's likely ARROW is done, and it'll probably be rebranded as basically just the DCTV universe with Superman and Supergirl,Flash and Batwoman being the new standard bearers of that franchise. It definitely felt that with Elseworlds that they are definitely pushing the Earth 38 Superduo and Lois Lane as the future for this franchise,with a touch of the Bat.

[phantom1592]

They've pretty much confirmed Batwoman is getting her own show by 2020. Maybe even as soon as fall 2019. Supergirl and Flash are solid performers for the CW and Warner's. There's been a DC Superhero related show on CW and it's predecessor the WB since 2001. It's been a lucrative franchise and has a stable built in fanbase. until the DC streaming service proves it's viability in putting eyes on these characters, and given the film side of DC is struggling to find it's way, WB would be stupid to not continue this universe they built in some way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'm guessing with CRISIS it will no longer be seen as the Arrowverse as it's likely ARROW is done, and it'll probably be rebranded as basically just the DCTV universe with Superman and Supergirl,Flash and Batwoman being the new standard bearers of that franchise. It definitely felt that with Elseworlds that they are definitely pushing the Earth 38 Superduo and Lois Lane as the future for this franchise,with a touch of the Bat.

I don't disagree with any of that... (except it felt more like writing Superman and Lois out than it did setting them up as new standard bearers) but WB has made terrible decisions before. Heck, they canceled Justice League 2 leaving their flagship movie with only half a movie....

I was pretty shocked that Marvel/Disney would cancel the Netflix shows when A) They are quite popular and B) they don't want anything rate R or dark and Gritty on their own service... It was a weird decision. but it still happened.

DC on the other hand... have their 'no two versions existing at the same time, ever.. sometimes... maybe.. unless we say so,' philosophy and they're pushing for their own thing... likely as a direct competion to Disney. I COULD see them doing something like that. Maybe trying to tie in a new Bat series or Supergirl or something in with the Titans-verse... Anythign to latch on to that current fanbase and try to drag them kicking and screaming into their their new thing.

It would backfire of course... but I wouldn't be shocked by it.

I had forgotten about Batwoman already, so maybe she'll get a couple of seasons... I don't know how that'll go. If they're going to go femal versions of everything... it's gonna suck. The fact that they had Nora Fries show up but none of the other characters doesn't bode well in my opinion. But until it actually airs, anything could happen.

[superduperman]

There's a couple reasons why I don't think they'll be doing a Superman spinoff. At least not soon. One is the movies. With the Cavill situation up in the air, I don't think they want a version overshadowing the movie version. This was the excuse they used to keep Batman out of Smallville. Until the movie mess is sorted out, I don't think they want any competition. I think to some degree, the popularity of this Superman spooked them. They are pushing a movie universe and now you have this version that everybody liked on TV. That complicates things. Another reason is I don't think they want him overshadowing Supergirl. As long as her show is on the air, I don't see him getting one. Everything about that ending to me said they wanted him out of the picture. Maybe some time down the line. But probably not within the next couple years. I also think some of this will depend on how the DCEU does. They are essentially trying to build a universe without their two biggest guns. I don't think even they know how that's going to go.

[manofsteel1979]

There's a couple reasons why I don't think they'll be doing a Superman spinoff. At least not soon. One is the movies. With the Cavill situation up in the air, I don't think they want a version overshadowing the movie version. This was the excuse they used to keep Batman out of Smallville. Until the movie mess is sorted out, I don't think they want any competition. I think to some degree, the popularity of this Superman spooked them. They are pushing a movie universe and now you have this version that everybody liked on TV. That complicates things. Another reason is I don't think they want him overshadowing Supergirl. As long as her show is on the air, I don't see him getting one. Everything about that ending to me said they wanted him out of the picture. Maybe some time down the line. But probably not within the next couple years. I also think some of this will depend on how the DCEU does. They are essentially trying to build a universe without their two biggest guns. I don't think even they know how that's going to go.

Good points all, and I don't completely disagree. They definitely want Clark off the table until the Crisis story. However, there's something going on with Superman's side of things.

After all, you don't introduce Lois Lane ,make a huge deal out of it and then...just don't do anything more with her.You certainly don't hire a "name" for Lex Luthor like Jon Cryer Just to use him as villain of the week on Supergirl for a few episodes and then broom him. There's some sort of eye towards possibility doing something substantial with Superman sometime in the next couple years. It could be they ARE launching a Superman series proper coming out of CRISIS. It could be they plan to have Superman die in Crisis and fold Lois into Supergirl for awhile until they decide to have a return of Supernan story to use as fodder for a follow up crossover in 2020. Maybe there will be a Superman series focusing on the Superfamily on the streaming service set within Berlanti-DC continuity...etc. Hell, maybe they are retooling the Metropolis show concept to tie into the Berlanti universe with Lois as the central character.

At this point there are so many things and variables. With Arrow almost done and Flash just passing 100 episodes, I can guarantee Berlanti and the CW are looking at multiple options to keep the nearly 20 year relationship between DC superheroes and The WB/The CW going.

I also don't think it really matters anymore what's happening with the movies and TV. After all, if that was a problem,why even allow Superman to be used on Supergirl? Even so, I'm highly skeptical WB film division gives a rats ass about Superman as a stand alone movie franchise. It took the copyright lawsuit with the heirs in 2011 to get the ball rolling on MOS, and once they did, they could barely wait to then turn it into an in into relaunching Batman and Justice league to spin off other heroes, including Flash.I highly suspect that if not for the fact WB'S lawyers didn't want to risk the movie IP going to another studio, Superman Returns would have been the only live action Superman film this century so far. Paradoxical I know, but I'm sure they rather still have the film rights to Superman and sit on them than to risk letting someone else make money off it

Either way I doubt the prospect of Superman on TV keeps Warner Bros film side execs up at night. All they probably care about is eventually making another Batman movie and in the meantime hoping the next WW movie is a hit and that Aquaman does well so that they won't have to make another Superman movie this decade.i can almost guarantee aside from the "s" shield and iconography which they are excited to use,there are many on the movie side of things that doesn't see classic Superman as an asset to be exploited,but rather a millstone around their neck.

[Clark_Kent]

I mentioned this in another thread on the tv forum, but if they wanted to loosely adapt the idea of duplicate heroes from other Earths for their COIE crossover...what about Dean Cain returning as Superman?

I know, it sounds nuts, but bear with me...Dean spoke earlier this year about wanting a 'Lois & Clark' reunion show, or a tv movie. Teri Hatcher was down for it as well. What if he got his wish by coming back as the elder Superman, much like they had Kal-L team up with Kal-El in the original story. Think about it...he's about the right age (just put a little grey in his temples), his 'S' is more stylized than Hoechlin's (just like Kal-L's was), he's not fat but he's definitely got the bulkier physique, he's married to Lois Lane (I imagine CW Superman & Lois won't tie the knot until after the baby is born)...there's a lot of similarities there. Add in the fact that the L&C show ended with a Kryptonian baby on their doorstep, you could easily make it the stand-in for Superboy Prime. He doesn't look like Hoechlin, but Shipp's Barry Allen doesn't look like Gustin either. I know Cain played Jeremiah on Supergirl, but they could either ignore that entirely or just say Kal's doppleganger on E-38 was born human instead of Kryptonian.

Anyway, I think it would be kinda cool. I'm not sure anyone is going to revisit L&C with a series or a movie, but guesting in the massive COIE crossover? I'd say it's possible...catches everyone up on where those characters are at, and gives a definitive ending for them that fans of the show never got.

[phantom1592]

I mentioned this in another thread on the tv forum, but if they wanted to loosely adapt the idea of duplicate heroes from other Earths for their COIE crossover...what about Dean Cain returning as Superman?

I know, it sounds nuts, but bear with me...Dean spoke earlier this year about wanting a 'Lois & Clark' reunion show, or a tv movie. Teri Hatcher was down for it as well. What if he got his wish by coming back as the elder Superman, much like they had Kal-L team up with Kal-El in the original story. Think about it...he's about the right age (just put a little grey in his temples), his 'S' is more stylized than Hoechlin's (just like Kal-L's was), he's not fat but he's definitely got the bulkier physique, he's married to Lois Lane (I imagine CW Superman & Lois won't tie the knot until after the baby is born)...there's a lot of similarities there. Add in the fact that the L&C show ended with a Kryptonian baby on their doorstep, you could easily make it the stand-in for Superboy Prime. He doesn't look like Hoechlin, but Shipp's Barry Allen doesn't look like Gustin either. I know Cain played Jeremiah on Supergirl, but they could either ignore that entirely or just say Kal's doppleganger on E-38 was born human instead of Kryptonian.

Anyway, I think it would be kinda cool. I'm not sure anyone is going to revisit L&C with a series or a movie, but guesting in the massive COIE crossover? I'd say it's possible...catches everyone up on where those characters are at, and gives a definitive ending for them that fans of the show never got.

I could see something like that. I don't think they'd go THAT in depth with it... but if they are going to do a true 'Crisis on Infinite Earths...' we need to see some dopplegangers running around. Get as many characters as you can on that screen. We have JWS on the payroll.. I'd love to see him play both 90's barry and Jay Garrick if they can make it work. Bring in Dean Caine, Bring in Tom Welling. Grab Smallville Aquaman and Green Arrow... Sure some characters may be 'dead' on earth 90... but this is CRISIS!!! A lot may be just around for action scenes... but man, those could be some GREAT action scenes... We've got 30+ years of live action DC to play with... lets get everyone they possibly can in this. Dr. Fate, Hawkman, Hawkgirl. Too bad Adam West died or he'd have been a fun Batman Beyond Bruce Wayne...

[manofsteel1979]

I could see something like that. I don't think they'd go THAT in depth with it... but if they are going to do a true 'Crisis on Infinite Earths...' we need to see some dopplegangers running around. Get as many characters as you can on that screen. We have JWS on the payroll.. I'd love to see him play both 90's barry and Jay Garrick if they can make it work. Bring in Dean Caine, Bring in Tom Welling. Grab Smallville Aquaman and Green Arrow... Sure some characters may be 'dead' on earth 90... but this is CRISIS!!! A lot may be just around for action scenes... but man, those could be some GREAT action scenes... We've got 30+ years of live action DC to play with... lets get everyone they possibly can in this. Dr. Fate, Hawkman, Hawkgirl. Too bad Adam West died or he'd have been a fun Batman Beyond Bruce Wayne...

It actually might be easier to get Brandon Routh back in the Superman Returns suit seeing he's already a regular fixture in the Arrowverse, and the TV division already were allowed to use the SR suit in shots during the last Season of Smallville. He could be the lone representative of the movie-verse, and technically since he was supposed to be playing Chris Reeve's Superman, he could fit the role of the "elder statesman" Superman too.

I really do hope we get some of this type of stunt casting and scope. Obviously this will never be a perfect adaptation given resourses and the continuity state of the CW shows, but if they stick true to the original premise of " Worlds Live. Worlds Die. The Universe will never be the same." ,We could be witnessing something special here.

I kinda hope this story spans at least two weeks worth of shows. Two episodes each of Flash,Supergirl, Arrow (if it gets renewed) and Legends. Maybe throw in Black Lightning into the festivities. Make it a real 6-8 part epic story.

[phantom1592]

It actually might be easier to get Brandon Routh back in the Superman Returns suit seeing he's already a regular fixture in the Arrowverse, and the TV division already were allowed to use the SR suit in shots during the last Season of Smallville. He could be the lone representative of the movie-verse, and technically since he was supposed to be playing Chris Reeve's Superman, he could fit the role of the "elder statesman" Superman too.

I really do hope we get some of this type of stunt casting and scope. Obviously this will never be a perfect adaptation given resourses and the continuity state of the CW shows, but if they stick true to the original premise of " Worlds Live. Worlds Die. The Universe will never be the same." ,We could be witnessing something special here.

.

Ohhhh I like that!

I don't even care if they do some one shot characters that live or die or erase... but I want a LOT of costumes on that screen


A LOT....

[The World]

I certainly enjoyed the crossover and totally geeked out at the potential of COIE on the TV. But was anyone else...disappointed with Clark's depiction in the Supergirl episode?
Look I get it, its Kara's show and she is the star. But there were definitely some things I was not a fan of:

Would Superman really ever leave Earth for Argo--even with a pregnant Lois?
In all the fights with Dugan, Clark got his butt kicked, and I just don't buy that. Doesn't he just have more experience with superpowers and superpowered combat?
Even when Barry and Kara go off to Reeves the world back in time, and Oliver "has a plan" and rushes off to face the Monitor, Clark literally just spins around slackjawed not saying or doing anything. Not at least offering to take Kara's place? Superman?? I just don't feature it.

I guess what I thought was I was happy to see a live-action Superman again, but I hope if there is a spin-off they make the actual series version more of a...Superman.

Yeah you pretty much said it. The Hoechlin/CW iteration of Superman is a pretty sterling example of why it isn't the power that makes Superman Super. They're clearly pulling from Post-Crisis era Superman but it seems like they just did a quick wikipedia glance and nothing more. Even when Lois was pregnant and he had no powers he was still out there successfully hacking it as a Superman. He was still smart and motivated and Lois liked that in him. I have my problems with him but he's unquestionable a Superman through and through.

This guy I just don't get. He's dumb, weak, unmotivated. Seems like he's use to just standing around with his arms crossed wearing the suit than actually having to do anything.

[superduperman]

I mentioned this in another thread on the tv forum, but if they wanted to loosely adapt the idea of duplicate heroes from other Earths for their COIE crossover...what about Dean Cain returning as Superman?

I know, it sounds nuts, but bear with me...Dean spoke earlier this year about wanting a 'Lois & Clark' reunion show, or a tv movie. Teri Hatcher was down for it as well. What if he got his wish by coming back as the elder Superman, much like they had Kal-L team up with Kal-El in the original story. Think about it...he's about the right age (just put a little grey in his temples), his 'S' is more stylized than Hoechlin's (just like Kal-L's was), he's not fat but he's definitely got the bulkier physique, he's married to Lois Lane (I imagine CW Superman & Lois won't tie the knot until after the baby is born)...there's a lot of similarities there. Add in the fact that the L&C show ended with a Kryptonian baby on their doorstep, you could easily make it the stand-in for Superboy Prime. He doesn't look like Hoechlin, but Shipp's Barry Allen doesn't look like Gustin either. I know Cain played Jeremiah on Supergirl, but they could either ignore that entirely or just say Kal's doppleganger on E-38 was born human instead of Kryptonian.

Anyway, I think it would be kinda cool. I'm not sure anyone is going to revisit L&C with a series or a movie, but guesting in the massive COIE crossover? I'd say it's possible...catches everyone up on where those characters are at, and gives a definitive ending for them that fans of the show never got.

I think this would be awesome. I kind of was hoping they'd do something like this last year when the multiverse was announced. And making him their version of Kal-L isn't a bad idea. In terms of the baby, I don't know that they need to acknowledge that too much. He'd be about 20 now so he could be a replacement for dad while Cain's Superman is retired. Supergirl could bring him out of retirement while his son takes over for him. My thinking is that he'd die stopping the Anti-Monitor like Kal-L did. With him looking like Jeremiah it would be an emotional ending for Kara.

[Clark_Kent]

I think this would be awesome. I kind of was hoping they'd do something like this last year when the multiverse was announced. And making him their version of Kal-L isn't a bad idea. In terms of the baby, I don't know that they need to acknowledge that too much. He'd be about 20 now so he could be a replacement for dad while Cain's Superman is retired. Supergirl could bring him out of retirement while his son takes over for him. My thinking is that he'd die stopping the Anti-Monitor like Kal-L did. With him looking like Jeremiah it would be an emotional ending for Kara.

Yep, good points. Also, I don't recall 'Lois & Clark' ever showing Kal's name in print, so saying he really is Kal-L would be kind of neat & not technically a retcon. 'L&C's' Superman obviously had much lower power levels than Kal-L did, due to their use of Byrne influence, but I still think it would be a lot of fun with modern special effects. Easy enough to just say he got stronger with more sun exposure now that he's in his 50's or so.

I brought up the kid because if they used Cain as the stand-in for Kal-L, then I would assume that would mean he & Lois would get a send-off when the Multiverse merges into one Earth...and since 'L&C' ended on the cliffhsnger with the baby, acknowledging it would be nice for those of us who grew up with that show on the air. They shouldn't spend much time on it, and could even not have the 20-year old on screen if they didn't want to (just give a few lines of dialogue like Lois saying "I wish ____ were here. Clark, do you think he/she is safe on New Krypton?").

Ultimately, do I think they'll do this? Nah. In Supergirl, Cain played Jeremiah and Hatcher already played a villain. But I grew up with 'L&C', and all these years later I still love it despite the cheesiness and the cringy moments. It has a ton of charm, and I'd love to see it get an ending, even if it only amounted to very little screen time. If we can get Shipp back as Flash, we could get Cain back as Superman.

I'd love to see Welling & company return, but you'll never get Welling to wear the suit. I love Routh, too, but if it came down to him or Dean Cain, my nostalgia votes for Cain. And Routh is tied up with Legends anyway. Smallville introduced a ton of DC characters, so if Welling didn't want to play a Superman, you could grab Green Arrow and enjoy him playing off of Amell.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Complete out-of-nowhere idea regarding the Lois & Clark baby. I know the idea by the creators was that he'd turn out to be "Kryptonian royalty" or their biological child from the future or something, but that never happened so it was left up in the air other than that this child is from parts unknown and in some way important. If that Lois and Clark were to be involved in Crisis, now with a grown young man for a son who could play a role in this conflict...what if that baby was Alexander Luthor?



You think the Monitor hasn't been readying things since 1997? Sorry, guess you're just not on his level.

[phantom1592]

I think that might be asking too much. We would be extremely fortunate if they acknowledge these older series existed... ala 90's Flash... but expecting or even hoping they'll tie up plot threads from them or even acknowledge the actual episodes... that's REALLY unlikely.

For example, I used to watch L&C all the time. I loved that show... but it's ratings were slipping by the end, and I remember a few fun plots like HG Wells and the kryptonian invasion (kind of)… I have either completely forgotten or never saw the 'baby'. That's a cliffhanger from 20 years ago and would only really resonate with what? 15-20% of the audience? Getting a wink and a nod for older fans is fun... but don't do anything that will alienate people under 20... y'know, the entire CW targeted demographic :P


Smallville is a bit closer to 'current' time, but even that shouldn't be more than a wink or a cameo... I LOOOOVED the little comments they made in the first crossover when Brandon Routh made a comment that Kara looked like his cousin. That sorta stuff is awesome.