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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Cale is certainly more interesting though the way Ruckas run was resolved I have trouble seeing Veronica Cale as an ongoing villain and more an individual who is in need of help. Robinsons crummy run did nothing to elevate Cale in my eyes and felt like a step backwards for characterization.

    As for Cyber, this Rebirth take feels like a completly different character to me. Yes, having a digital adversary is awesome, but what I liked about the original was how diverse her talents were. She was a sorceress. She was a scientist. She was a psychic. She was a martial artist. She lead a criminal empire which had cells all over the world squirreled away in her many secret bases, peopled by people who would die for her will.

    She knew Wonder Womans secret identity and had spies who were privvy to every element of Dianas personal life and she would not hesitate to go after those close to Diana in order to make Wonder Woman pay.
    She was motivated by a desire for world domination and a gnawing compulsion to kill Wonder Woman not simply for foiling her plans, but because she blamed Wonder Woman for her scarred face which Diana didn't even cause in the first place.
    Her second in command was Yu Shan, the daughter of I-Ching who was a talented martial artist that wanted to kill her father for the murder of her mother.

    In every way, shape, and form this new Doctor Cyber has alot to her that makes me want to keep her around as a unique villain, but I just wouldn't want to see her replace the original because she just falls short in alot of ways that I doubt could be remedied.

    On a side note, its kinda annoying how writers rather than working with an older villain will just take elements from them to make something totally new and unrelated. I swear its more common with Wonder Womans rogues than anyone elses.
    Honestly I think there is a way to make them both work.I mean why not have her remake a body? Due to her intelligence she is able to track down and learn many other abilities. She goes to I Ching. Who would she learn magic from?

  2. #32
    Mighty Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Honestly I think there is a way to make them both work.I mean why not have her remake a body? Due to her intelligence she is able to track down and learn many other abilities. She goes to I Ching. Who would she learn magic from?
    The problem is that in current continuity I-Ching is dead. His daughter is still on the table though...And I suppose if she became the next machine queen, met up with those techno mages that Rasputins great great grandson was a member of, and was able to get her tech that pulled off telepathy and telekenesis...The only hurdle would be how virtual doctor cyber would get that massive world spanning organization and somehow get minions loyal enough to die in her name...Oh and some sort of motive that isn't simply trying to help Cale.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    The problem is that in current continuity I-Ching is dead. His daughter is still on the table though...And I suppose if she became the next machine queen, met up with those techno mages that Rasputins great great grandson was a member of, and was able to get her tech that pulled off telepathy and telekenesis...The only hurdle would be how virtual doctor cyber would get that massive world spanning organization and somehow get minions loyal enough to die in her name...Oh and some sort of motive that isn't simply trying to help Cale.
    So what should her motives be? I mean the original goal was to steal Diana's face. By I Ching I meant Dr. Cyber would go there to learn about martial arts. I mean his daughter could be involved with Dr.Cyber.

  4. #34
    Mighty Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So what should her motives be? I mean the original goal was to steal Diana's face. By I Ching I meant Dr. Cyber would go there to learn about martial arts. I mean his daughter could be involved with Dr.Cyber.
    Motives for Rebirth Doctor Cyber? I couldn't begin to guess. While the originals was both wanting Wonder Woman for her body and world domination, the Rebirth Cyber is a bit less explored. I mean in a nutshell she died trying to kill Wonder Woman, was restored to life by Veronica Cale using a backup of her mind and while Cale keeps insisting that Doctor Cyber isn't the original real version of her friend, rebirth Cyber views herself as such and is focused entirely on helping Cale.

    Shes never really shown having anything that drives her or any connection to her old life or regret and the way she acts honestly makes it easier to believe Cales view that this is just a robotic copy. If anything she seems joyful at her current form and identity, with the desire to help Cale soley because she views Veronica as her friend with nothing to motivate or drive her beyond this one personal connection. Heck, she doesn't even seem that miffed at Diana, Deimos, or Phobos for putting her in that state.

    I suppose one could try to shoe horn in a personal life such as a love of nature and hiking or have her develop a desire to conquer the world in order to give it to Cale as a present, though im not sure how one would go about approaching such a thing without it coming off as a bit ham handed.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Motives for Rebirth Doctor Cyber? I couldn't begin to guess. While the originals was both wanting Wonder Woman for her body and world domination, the Rebirth Cyber is a bit less explored. I mean in a nutshell she died trying to kill Wonder Woman, was restored to life by Veronica Cale using a backup of her mind and while Cale keeps insisting that Doctor Cyber isn't the original real version of her friend, rebirth Cyber views herself as such and is focused entirely on helping Cale.

    Shes never really shown having anything that drives her or any connection to her old life or regret and the way she acts honestly makes it easier to believe Cales view that this is just a robotic copy. If anything she seems joyful at her current form and identity, with the desire to help Cale soley because she views Veronica as her friend with nothing to motivate or drive her beyond this one personal connection. Heck, she doesn't even seem that miffed at Diana, Deimos, or Phobos for putting her in that state.

    I suppose one could try to shoe horn in a personal life such as a love of nature and hiking or have her develop a desire to conquer the world in order to give it to Cale as a present, though im not sure how one would go about approaching such a thing without it coming off as a bit ham handed.
    I'd say she does. She very angrily blames Diana for bringing Deimos and Phobos's attention down on her and Veronica, and seems sad when she cannot hold Izzy's hand.

    While most of her motivations are thus far tied into Cale, Rucka left options open for her to strike out on her own. Veronica said she didn't need her anymore and Cyber left her. Robinson just brought her back without a fuss, which is lame.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why not it be easy has deep down she is upset at Cale for not considering her as a real friend and at Diana for killing her and leaving her in this state of not longing being able to be independent. Her life was then only to help Cale because in the deepest parts she still thought Cale cared for her despite everything. I mean cale is using her friend’s brain. So that’s still her to a large point. Why not make it simple she can’t have a life. She wants to do things outside. It’s not world domination that drives her. It’s her not feeling useless. That in itself can be a powerful motive

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    They could do a lot of stuff with the new Dr. Cyber that they did with the old one. Her armored design could be replicated with an android shell she downloads herself into to interact with the physical world, she could run a global crime organization, and she actually has a compelling reason to want to steal Diana's flesh-and-blood body now if a writer wants to run with that.

  8. #38
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    I love these villains more so for their potential that from what I've actually read. This list is in no specific order:

    1. Ares - I think there is no coincidence that in at least two of Wondy's reboots (Perez and Rucka) and her two films that Ares is her first major villain when she comes to man's world. Ares, more so than any other Wondy villain, most easily establishes Wondy's beliefs, ideology, mission and is the villain most seamlessly bridges Wondy's life in Themsycira and her life in "Man's World." The film also shows that Ares can also very naturally force Diana to question her beliefs regarding Man's World and whether she is truly a shining example of the best of what "man" can be, or is she truly just a demi-goddess forced to constantly be disappointed when man actions illustrate that we are far from a perfect people.

    2. Circe - I find Circe to be the best "anti-Diana" mirror of all of Diana's rogues. (Personally I find some like Grail to be a little too on the nose regarding the dark mirror idea) Circe is an extremely powerful woman from myth similar to Diana; however, unlike Diana, Circe is cruel, selfish, destructive, manipulative and elitist. Both women are outsiders to man's current day world, but they have contrasting views as to how they see man's role in the grand scheme of design. In Rucka's run, I thought it was quite interesting how Circe said to Diana, "All these years living in this world, yet you can still be surprised by its cruelties. That's kind of wonderful about you, Diana." This should be the basis of their conflict. Both have experienced and seen the very worst of mankind. However, while Diana still believes mankind is inherently good and worth redemption, Circe see their evil as too entrenched for them to ever truly rise above it. Circe should constant be trying to push Diana to lose hope in mankind and her mission by setting up situations where Diana must question if she made the right decision by leaving Paradise to come to save man's world. Circe's ultimate goal should be bringing Diana down to man's and Circe's level.

    3. Dr. Poison - She is obviously a character that writers see some value in. One of Diana's very first villains, she has been revamped several times by several writers, she was in a previous version of a Wonder Woman film that was never made and was kept as one of the villains in the 2017 film. A villain who can create any poison that comes to mind, Dr. Poison should be one of Diana's most dangerous foes and a threat to the entire DCU. Poisons are a huge narrative story point in comics, television, movies, video games, etc., and she is one of the easiest Wondy rogues to incorporate as she is a smart, dangerous woman - that idea has no limitations regardless of medium or time period. I would love for Dr. Poison to team up with the Joker and the two to create chaos and delight in the torment of others everywhere they go. (Personally I would love to see this in a Wonder Woman/Harley Quinn animated film).

    4. Cheetah - I'm honestly shocked I'm adding this character as I used to find the idea of this character absolutely laughable. I could never take this shampoo model werecheetah seriously. However, since Rucka has reimagined Cheetah as a friend turned foe and Sharp redesigned Cheetah to look like the ferocious monster she should be. She has truly grown on me. The dynamic between Diana and Barbara Ann and Wonder Woman and Cheetah was one of the best aspects of Rucka's run, especially in The Lies/Year One. The upcoming Wonder Woman film also seems like the take the character seriously and stay away from the cheesecake portrayals that I think have stunted the character's popularity. If the film is a success, and Cheetah/Barbara Ann is treated as well as in Rucka's run, I see this character finally earning the notoriety D.C. seems they want the character to have.

    5. Dr. Psycho - I think everyone absolutely understands why a man who can control a person's mind and body would be truly terrifying to women. Dr. Psycho represent the absolute worst of mankind. The living embodiment of "'Toxic Masculinity" Dr. Psycho should hate Diana solely because she empowers women and she is empowered. I think he also shows why it is so important for Diana to be in man's world. While a lot of Wondy's female villains could show how a patriarchal society has negatively impacted them and why it pushed them into villainy, he shows why some men are so invested in upholding patriarchy with no concern with how it not only destroys women but how it has destoyed them as welll.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    With Dr.Psoion, I always liked it more of her more in the shadows that beating Diana directly. I see due to Diana, Dr. Posion checks to see if she can get other kinds of poisons from mythical creatures. Or find a way to kill mythical beings. This is one of my favorite redesigns



  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What villain do you guys want to see in the next Wonder Woman movie l? Honestly I would want to see Silver Swan, Circe or maybe Gignata

  11. #41
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Circe
    Cheetah
    Cale
    Can’t wait for WW: EO vol. 2 to see Psycho in play.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    In terms of rebirth do you guys feel Cale and Dr.Cyber both benefited from it? Did it raise their ranks? I hope Giganta gets that chance
    God yes. Cale was just discount FemLuthor to me before Rebirth. I didn’t even know Cyber existed but now I hope she shows up again.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What villain do you guys want to see in the next Wonder Woman movie l? Honestly I would want to see Silver Swan, Circe or maybe Gignata
    Circe is my choice for WW3 but I’d be interested in Cale too.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One character I felt that didn’t benefit from Rucka was Dr.Posion. If was fine that he made her militant type woman.

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Circe is perfect for a movie big bad. She can put on a massive spectacle, then disappear completely when it looks like she might lose.

  14. #44
    Mighty Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Another Wonder Woman villain I like is the Earl of Greed. One of the children of Ares, hes the god of greed and draws power simply from people being greedy. Any who value money over anything else are his unknowing worshippers, and he would invest his finances in aiding Ares, though only because he knew tricks to double that money back into his pockets.

    About as loyal to Ares as a rat on a sinking ship, the Earl of Greed is quick to cut all ties with the god of war should he be showing he is going to lose and will for the right price gleefully serve his enemies. But would be just as quick to aid Ares again should it look like he could get something out of it. Boasting that he will be around forever, the Earl of Greed is empowered by greed which will never go away.

    I feel like alot could be done with a concept like this and i'll admit, alot of my favorite Wonder Woman villains are my favorites more for concept and potential more than anything else

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One thing I would like to see is Paula but I wonder due to Cale now having a similar origin to her do we still need Gunter? Clea could be a great crossover event. That Clea wants the beast the amazons are protecting.

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