Red Hood And the Outlaws Annual #2 Preview/Discussion

[G-Potion]

Also I find it sad that Jason refused to use the equipment on the ship to speed up his healing process. Like he wants to feel all of the hurt Bruce inflicted on him.

[magpieM]

The art looks great. I just want to comment that both of Jason and Roy seem to weigh 200 lbs here

[Aahz]

The art looks great. I just want to comment that both of Jason and Roy seem to weigh 200 lbs here

If you go by zhe official stats, Jason should weight 225 lbs and Roy 185 lbs.

[Aahz]

I wonder if this fight will be included in cbrs 15 times someone beat red Hood list.

I feel like he gets beaten way to often.

[Rise]

Somehow Jason is always getting the short end of the stick.

Come on now, Jason is hardly the first or the only family member who got hit by Batman. Dick has been his punching bag for ages.

Jason and Bruce are always going to fight for a while and then make up later since their relationship is one step forward and two steps back. Their bad moments don't cancel their good moments and vice versa. It's how they are since Jason retun because they both are too stubborn and neither one of them is willing to completely walk away from the other.

[Aioros22]

... I will wait for the review for know if we will see something about Bizarro&Artemis.. If they are not mentioned, I finished with the previous issue.

Penguin here is "dead" and he will appear again in a few months as if nothing happened.. We lost one great team for nothing...

For a potentially good story. I don't care about what Tom is doing on Batsy.

[okiedokiewo]

Well, Bruce doesn't know yet. And apparently the only thing broken was the mask, he was talking just fine in the issue after.

And Penguin will be "just fine."

[G-Potion]

And Penguin will be "just fine."

Except for an eye, maybe.

[JasonTodd428]

Oh, jesus christ. I didn't see this in its whole perspective.

Holly crap. I'm so freaking mad with Bruce now. And I refuse to be comprehensive towards anyone who defends his behaviour now, with what's about to happen. Just wow, Bruce! Way to go. He better realice about his wrong deeds soon. And the batfamilly better call his crap.

I can't believe I didn't notice the whole implications of the Penguin alliance and the not-dead status could be for Jason in retrospective.

Jerkman, that's his name.

It's just a bit of speculation on my part and its vaguely possible that Jason may never find out about that but then again he did manage to find out Joker was still alive in UTRH so I'm not willing to bet on him not discovering it. I agree with all you say here.

Come on now, Jason is hardly the first or the only family member who got hit by Batman. Dick has been his punching bag for ages.

Jason and Bruce are always going to fight for a while and then make up later since their relationship is one step forward and two steps back. Their bad moments don't cancel their good moments and vice versa. It's how they are since Jason retun because they both are too stubborn and neither one of them is willing to completely walk away from the other.

To be honest I hope Jason just walks away from Bruce (not anyone else in the family mind you, just Bruce) this time and never comes back. There is something seriously wrong with a relationship wherein your two steps back necessitates a beating of some sort and honestly its gotten to be as bad as the whole 'will they/won't they' scenario with Babs and Dick or Selina and Bruce. The whole thing has honestly gotten pretty stale to me at this point. I say Jason breaks off from Bruce completely and maybe then he can move on with his life.

[Rise]

Jason is a bat character and the second Robin. He's always going to be connected to Batman and we already have a story with them together coming soon by Johns.

I stand with my point that Batman's over the top reaction was ooc and was done mostly for drama as a set up for the new arc, but there's some good that come out from it like the dumb promise finally being broken. If Jason want to stop killing, he need to do it because he believes it's the right thing, not because Batman told him so. Maybe he will also finally stop caring about getting Batman's approval and have his resolve strengthen about what he want to do with his life.

[JasonTodd428]

Jason is a bat character and the second Robin. He's always going to be connected to Batman and we already have a story with them together coming soon by Johns.

I'm not saying that he's not going to be connected in some way to Batman just that he doesn't need to keep hanging around in the hope that he will magically gain Bruce's approval. As for Johns story we don't even know when its set in relation to events in RHATO. It could very well be a story set before their falling out happened in #25 and if its not I'm certainly not thinking its going to end up being some sort of reconciliation story where things are all fine again and all is forgiven. I actually do think, however, that this story is just another case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing and that it will be completely ignoring everything that's happening in RHATO for the sake of whatever story Johns is telling. I even question Jason's significance to the story seeing as how Dick was supposed to have a big role to play in Forever Evil and he ended up captured and spent most of the event tied to a chair.

I stand with my point that Batman's over the top reaction was ooc and was done mostly for drama as a set up for the new arc, but there's some good that come out from it like the dumb promise finally being broken. If Jason want to stop killing, he need to do it because he believes it's the right thing, not because Batman told him so. Maybe he will also finally stop caring about getting Batman's approval and have his resolve strengthen about what he want to do with his life.

I agree it was an over the top reaction to serve the story however Bruce does have a tendency to "overreact" with regard to Jason historically since all the way back in Jason's Robin days instead of necessarily trying to figure out the reasons for those actions. Every time that happens it bites Bruce in the a$$ and ends up hurting Jason as well at least on a psychological level. I also very much agree that if Jason chooses to stop killing it really should be his own decision to make not anyone else's. Its interesting that during the N52 while Jason worked in Gotham he made the choice not to kill for himself choosing instead to kneecap baddies over going for lethal shots when working with Batman and Company whereas in Rebirth Bruce gave him this 'no killing while working in Gotham' ultimatum. Honestly given the choice Jason had made previously this move on the part of Bruce sounds odd and even unnecessary.

In any case I simply feel that he can do as you suggest here without having to deal with Bruce and his "Jason issues" by simply leaving altogether. I actually think, particularly at the moment, that it would be far better for Jason in the long run to do so. After he gets his own sh!t together then maybe he can try reconciling with Bruce but only if Bruce is willing to get his own issues with Jason sorted out too.

[Zaresh]

Jason is a bat character and the second Robin. He's always going to be connected to Batman and we already have a story with them together coming soon by Johns.

I stand with my point that Batman's over the top reaction was ooc and was done mostly for drama as a set up for the new arc, but there's some good that come out from it like the dumb promise finally being broken. If Jason want to stop killing, he need to do it because he believes it's the right thing, not because Batman told him so. Maybe he will also finally stop caring about getting Batman's approval and have his resolve strengthen about what he want to do with his life.

I agree with the first part of this; and as for the second, one can only hope.

[Rise]

I'm not saying that he's not going to be connected in some way to Batman just that he doesn't need to keep hanging around in the hope that he will magically gain Bruce's approval. As for Johns story we don't even know when its set in relation to events in RHATO. It could very well be a story set before their falling out happened in #25 and if its not I'm certainly not thinking its going to end up being some sort of reconciliation story where things are all fine again and all is forgiven. I actually do think, however, that this story is just another case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing and that it will be completely ignoring everything that's happening in RHATO for the sake of whatever story Johns is telling. I even question Jason's significance to the story seeing as how Dick was supposed to have a big role to play in Forever Evil and he ended up captured and spent most of the event tied to a chair.

We don't know much about it yet besides the fact that it's a personal and emotional story. It's not a big "epic" crossover event like FE that involved many characters. So, I'm going to hold off judgment until I see the final result.

I agree it was an over the top reaction to serve the story however Bruce does have a tendency to "overreact" with regard to Jason historically since all the way back in Jason's Robin days instead of necessarily trying to figure out the reasons for those actions. Every time that happens it bites Bruce in the a$$ and ends up hurting Jason as well at least on a psychological level.

It's been a while since last time I read Jason's time as Robin, but I remember that he and Bruce got along pretty well and it was only when Starlin took over Jason got pushed aside and his anger issues suddnly got worse.

[JasonTodd428]

We don't know much about it yet besides the fact that it's a personal and emotional story. It's not a big "epic" crossover event like FE that involved many characters. So, I'm going to hold off judgment until I see the final result.

All I'm saying is that he does have a habit of doing that so I'm pretty much in the "I'll believe it when I actually have the issues in hand and not before then" mode about the story. *shrug*

It's been a while since last time I read Jason's time as Robin, but I remember that he and Bruce got along pretty well and it was only when Starlin took over Jason got pushed aside and his anger issues suddnly got worse.

That's true but I also feel that most writers seem to be taking their ques from Starlin's portrayal rather than Collin's and that they, in some cases, aren't taking into account the complete history between the two.

[Sergard]

It's been a while since last time I read Jason's time as Robin, but I remember that he and Bruce got along pretty well and it was only when Starlin took over Jason got pushed aside and his anger issues suddnly got worse.

I'd say there was already a tiny glimpse under Collins. In the first case of Batman and Robin Jason Bruce hides the fact that Twoface (probably) killed Jason's father. And after Jason tries to strangle Twoface, Bruce is more concerned about the time and effort he invested in his new Robin than Jason's emotional state. Bruce: "I invested time in you - you blew it back there! Everything I taught you went out the window! You completely lost your cool - Months of training - physical and mental... I took you into my home, my world, to share a secret, sacred trust..." So they had a rocky start. But their relationship got better. And worse again under Starlin.

Although I also have to say that I actually like some of Starlin's stuff like "Batman: The Cult". And even "The Diplomat's son" together with "Consequences" isn't that bad since the moral of the story is that killing the "villain" doesn't solve everything and can make things worse. Jason seemed to understand that in the end (although the thought of a 14/15-year old killing someone is still disturbing. It also throws a bad light on Batman and the police since they couldn't do much to stop the villain or save the victim). So that's why "A death in the family" was strange with Jason being all over the place.

But all this stuff probably didn't happen in the new timeline or was altered like the "Batman: The Cult" story.