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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Default Try to improve Anakin/Padme romance story

    I think Padme should play a bigger role in EP I, to trust Anakin when others don't to form a special bond. Shmi's death could have been moved to EP I.

    Then EP II's main blast could be with Anakin/Padme instead of Shmi's death.

    EP III should have been more about Anakin/Padme rather than Anakin/Obi Wan.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    I think I would have redone the age difference. The she is 14 and a Queen vs he is 8 and a slave storyline aspect in part 1, and then them getting together 10 years later. It was just a lot of yuck.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  3. #3
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    I think I would have redone the age difference. The she is 14 and a Queen vs he is 8 and a slave storyline aspect in part 1, and then them getting together 10 years later. It was just a lot of yuck.
    I don't think 5 years of age difference is a big problem, it's just that the actual romance wasn't done well.

    Tons of romance with even bigger age difference was handled nicely.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    I don't think 5 years of age difference is a big problem, it's just that the actual romance wasn't done well.

    Tons of romance with even bigger age difference was handled nicely.
    Correct, my wife and I are 7 years apart, and trust me, we don't talk about, "when I was 14 you were 7" kind of conversations. There is a big eeww there. 18 to 23 is fine and works.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  5. #5
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    everything about it was handled so poorly that just about ANYTHING different would have been an improvement.

    in real life, the age difference is frequently a big deal - especially as it seems like with young adults they can perceive even a slight age gap as being significant. and, in some cases, it IS a tremendously big deal from a legal standpoint. if somebody is 19 and they get romantically involved with somebody who is 14 then.... yeah, there could be issues if they do anything against the law.

    perhaps the bigger problem is that nobody else in the universe appears to have noticed what was going on. I mean, I guess you could argue that Obi Wan kept it a secret - but mostly he appears to have been completely oblivious.

    honestly, I would have kept Anakin's mother around longer. instead of having him kill the younglings maybe Palpatine convinces him that he has to murder his own mother... or something. killing off a bunch of nameless kids just didn't seem that bad compared to how casually Jedi and Sith kill people in other contexts. you had no reason to really care about the kids apart from the fact that they were, y'know, just little kids.

    make Qui Gon Jin into Anakin's biological father: it improves the story, gets rid of a lot of prep-work and set-up.... it would have been simpler if Qui Gon Jin forsook the Jedi order because he married Shmi and that Anakin is his child.

    Qui Gonn doesn't want Anakin to become a jedi. however, Anakin finds it appealing, and one of Qui Gon's former students, Obi Wan, sees potential in young Anakin. to make matters worse, Qui Gonn belives that Anakin is tempermentally unsuited to be a Jedi: he has too much ambition and has trouble controlling his emotions. so the former teacher and student are in a debate over the future of the child. (Anakin and Padme could both be older teenagers... or, heck, just make their age on screen the age of the actors playing them. it's not really a huge deal)

    so, er, moving on... Count Dooku, a former comrade of Qui Gon, has also secretly forsaken the order, but stays involved because he sees the promising young Anakin as a new Sith acolyte. Dooku has his apprentice, Darth Maul, kill Qui Gonn in hopes of compelling Anakin to join the order... knowing that respect for his father was the only thing holding Anakin back from joining.

    save the Palpatine was the REAL Sith Lord for much, much later in the film. the fact that Dooku also had an apprentice and has been secretly trying to murder Palpatine (his secret master) the whole time could help explain why there is that silly "Rule of Two" thing to begin with.

    yes, I realize that doesn't immediately touch upon the whole romance thing directly - but at least it would set up some more interesting conflict/character dynamics. Shmi could be upset that the Sith murdered Qui Gon and wants Anakin to avenge his father's death... but that very fact goes against Jedi principles... so lots of Jedi really, REALLY don't trust Anakin. Dooku, fully aware of this conflict, uses that to bring out the Dark Side in young Anakin in a way that Qui Gon had always feared would come true.

    it also sets up how Obi Wan seriously thinks that he can teach Anakin - but that he naively supposes that there aren't other people in the Jedi order who are working against him. Dooku revealing that he's a Sith traitor could be saved for the second film... and it might be in that film where Anakin finally gets to kill Darth Maul.

    eh, I know, it's not all about romance... but I feel like these sorts of romantic relationships never exist in a vacuum. maybe Shmi wants Anakin to avenge his father, her husband's death, but Padme is opposed to it. maybe Palpatine convinces Anakin that Shmi is the one standing in the way of him developing into a more powerful Force user.

    I dunno… I'm just throwing random crap out there, but I think ANYTHING would have been an improvement over the "romance" story that we were actually given.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    everything about it was handled so poorly that just about ANYTHING different would have been an improvement.

    in real life, the age difference is frequently a big deal - especially as it seems like with young adults they can perceive even a slight age gap as being significant. and, in some cases, it IS a tremendously big deal from a legal standpoint. if somebody is 19 and they get romantically involved with somebody who is 14 then.... yeah, there could be issues if they do anything against the law.

    perhaps the bigger problem is that nobody else in the universe appears to have noticed what was going on. I mean, I guess you could argue that Obi Wan kept it a secret - but mostly he appears to have been completely oblivious.

    honestly, I would have kept Anakin's mother around longer. instead of having him kill the younglings maybe Palpatine convinces him that he has to murder his own mother... or something. killing off a bunch of nameless kids just didn't seem that bad compared to how casually Jedi and Sith kill people in other contexts. you had no reason to really care about the kids apart from the fact that they were, y'know, just little kids.

    make Qui Gon Jin into Anakin's biological father: it improves the story, gets rid of a lot of prep-work and set-up.... it would have been simpler if Qui Gon Jin forsook the Jedi order because he married Shmi and that Anakin is his child.

    Qui Gonn doesn't want Anakin to become a jedi. however, Anakin finds it appealing, and one of Qui Gon's former students, Obi Wan, sees potential in young Anakin. to make matters worse, Qui Gonn belives that Anakin is tempermentally unsuited to be a Jedi: he has too much ambition and has trouble controlling his emotions. so the former teacher and student are in a debate over the future of the child. (Anakin and Padme could both be older teenagers... or, heck, just make their age on screen the age of the actors playing them. it's not really a huge deal)

    so, er, moving on... Count Dooku, a former comrade of Qui Gon, has also secretly forsaken the order, but stays involved because he sees the promising young Anakin as a new Sith acolyte. Dooku has his apprentice, Darth Maul, kill Qui Gonn in hopes of compelling Anakin to join the order... knowing that respect for his father was the only thing holding Anakin back from joining.

    save the Palpatine was the REAL Sith Lord for much, much later in the film. the fact that Dooku also had an apprentice and has been secretly trying to murder Palpatine (his secret master) the whole time could help explain why there is that silly "Rule of Two" thing to begin with.

    yes, I realize that doesn't immediately touch upon the whole romance thing directly - but at least it would set up some more interesting conflict/character dynamics. Shmi could be upset that the Sith murdered Qui Gon and wants Anakin to avenge his father's death... but that very fact goes against Jedi principles... so lots of Jedi really, REALLY don't trust Anakin. Dooku, fully aware of this conflict, uses that to bring out the Dark Side in young Anakin in a way that Qui Gon had always feared would come true.

    it also sets up how Obi Wan seriously thinks that he can teach Anakin - but that he naively supposes that there aren't other people in the Jedi order who are working against him. Dooku revealing that he's a Sith traitor could be saved for the second film... and it might be in that film where Anakin finally gets to kill Darth Maul.

    eh, I know, it's not all about romance... but I feel like these sorts of romantic relationships never exist in a vacuum. maybe Shmi wants Anakin to avenge his father, her husband's death, but Padme is opposed to it. maybe Palpatine convinces Anakin that Shmi is the one standing in the way of him developing into a more powerful Force user.

    I dunno… I'm just throwing random crap out there, but I think ANYTHING would have been an improvement over the "romance" story that we were actually given.
    I think none of it is suggestion of romance, instead of Anakin's other plot.

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    Correct, my wife and I are 7 years apart, and trust me, we don't talk about, "when I was 14 you were 7" kind of conversations. There is a big eeww there. 18 to 23 is fine and works.
    Yeah, making Anakin 15 and Padme around 20 when they met would reduce the weird stuff.

    But the age difference should have played a part in their love tragedy, so it can't be removed.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking; 10-20-2019 at 05:23 PM.

  8. #8

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    Jared from Wisecrack explains why Anakin/Padme didn't work in the film.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post


    Jared from Wisecrack explains why Anakin/Padme didn't work in the film.
    I don't think it's just 1 movie's fault. We have to connect all 3 well.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    I think none of it is suggestion of romance, instead of Anakin's other plot.
    LOL. well, I did say that they should just use the actual age of the actors (Portman and Christensen). and I did point out that other characters should actually NOTICE that they like each other. besides... in the real world when a romance happens between two people it typically involves a whole network of people from both sides. and, in this case, the network of people surrounding Anakin are more important for the plot overall.

    besides, with the set up of Qui Gon Jin forsaking the order for love it means that the Jedi would be concerned that Anakin would follow in his father's footsteps. while Obi Wan thinks that Anakin will refuse to make that same choice. of course, in the end he does.

    besides, that would be the Anakin set-up. for Padme, I think she should be just straight-up blue blood royalty... and that her extended family hates Anakin, and hates his father even more. she inherited the role of supreme dictator for life because her parents didn't have any sons- and they both died in a terrible incident (which can be Sith related)… and so people are looking at her like maybe she doesn't know what she's doing. so when Anakin, and the other Jedi, give their support she appreciates it... because she's ruling a planet because her parents died recently... and she's got a lot of people that are trying to manipulate her, or get her killed so that they can take over.

    part of the reason the romance doesn't work is that there's practically no supporting cast to react to it on either side.

    it doesn't have to be full "Game of Thrones" political intrigue... but there needed to be something more there than what we got.

    with a more fully developed backstory for these characters their romance can have more meaning.

    Palpatine can play the role of benign cheerleader for them as individuals and as a romantic couple the whole time. he can seem like a kindly old man there to help out, but he's really manipulating both of them to get what he wants.

  11. #11
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    LOL. well, I did say that they should just use the actual age of the actors (Portman and Christensen). and I did point out that other characters should actually NOTICE that they like each other. besides... in the real world when a romance happens between two people it typically involves a whole network of people from both sides. and, in this case, the network of people surrounding Anakin are more important for the plot overall.

    besides, with the set up of Qui Gon Jin forsaking the order for love it means that the Jedi would be concerned that Anakin would follow in his father's footsteps. while Obi Wan thinks that Anakin will refuse to make that same choice. of course, in the end he does.

    besides, that would be the Anakin set-up. for Padme, I think she should be just straight-up blue blood royalty... and that her extended family hates Anakin, and hates his father even more. she inherited the role of supreme dictator for life because her parents didn't have any sons- and they both died in a terrible incident (which can be Sith related)… and so people are looking at her like maybe she doesn't know what she's doing. so when Anakin, and the other Jedi, give their support she appreciates it... because she's ruling a planet because her parents died recently... and she's got a lot of people that are trying to manipulate her, or get her killed so that they can take over.

    part of the reason the romance doesn't work is that there's practically no supporting cast to react to it on either side.

    it doesn't have to be full "Game of Thrones" political intrigue... but there needed to be something more there than what we got.

    with a more fully developed backstory for these characters their romance can have more meaning.

    Palpatine can play the role of benign cheerleader for them as individuals and as a romantic couple the whole time. he can seem like a kindly old man there to help out, but he's really manipulating both of them to get what he wants.
    I think the age difference was to be a big part that caused their tragedy. So I don't think you can totally remove it.

    The other characters did notice, they chose not to break it out because the Jedi need Padme in the senate. Just there wasn't enough focus to do it. Palpatine obviously knew it, it would be good to let him manipulate a bit more.

  12. #12
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Since the “romance” in EP1 was essentially just a crush between kids in favor of placing more focus on how they first meet, I think it’s more or less fine as is.

    My issues with the Padmé/Anakin romance story mostly come from episode 2. First, I feel like taking the 10 year gap between episodes and not having them interact once in all that time was a mistake. Had it been established that they’ve been close friends for nearly a decade by the time AOTC begins, the events that lead to them finally becoming a couple would’ve been much easier to believe.

    Which, of course, still leaves the Sand People Slaughter. Either you have Anakin kill them all but not tell her or he still confesses but the slaughter itself is tone down (only kills men, regains control before killing women or children) but you can’t do both. Not at that point in their relationship at least.

    For ROTS, I would’ve put greater emphasis on them trying to make their marriage work despite the circumstances and how their marriage (flaws and all) has helped him survive the horrors of war.

  13. #13
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Since the “romance” in EP1 was essentially just a crush between kids in favor of placing more focus on how they first meet, I think it’s more or less fine as is.

    My issues with the Padmé/Anakin romance story mostly come from episode 2. First, I feel like taking the 10 year gap between episodes and not having them interact once in all that time was a mistake. Had it been established that they’ve been close friends for nearly a decade by the time AOTC begins, the events that lead to them finally becoming a couple would’ve been much easier to believe.

    Which, of course, still leaves the Sand People Slaughter. Either you have Anakin kill them all but not tell her or he still confesses but the slaughter itself is tone down (only kills men, regains control before killing women or children) but you can’t do both. Not at that point in their relationship at least.

    For ROTS, I would’ve put greater emphasis on them trying to make their marriage work despite the circumstances and how their marriage (flaws and all) has helped him survive the horrors of war.
    EP I should already set up some special friendship bond between them, rather than give the 2nd movie too much pressure to do it. Also Shmi's death should occur in EP I as well so the emotional climax of EP II would be Padme as well.

    I agree that you can't leave them for 10 years.

  14. #14
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    EP I should already set up some special friendship bond between them, rather than give the 2nd movie too much pressure to do it. Also Shmi's death should occur in EP I as well so the emotional climax of EP II would be Padme as well.

    I agree that you can't leave them for 10 years.
    I feel like EP 1 kind of did lay the groundwork for that special friendship bond, Episode 2 just didn’t do anything with it. I like Shmi’s death being saved for EP II but I think that entire sequence works best if Padmé & Anakin are already good friends by that point.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I feel like EP 1 kind of did lay the groundwork for that special friendship bond, Episode 2 just didn’t do anything with it. I like Shmi’s death being saved for EP II but I think that entire sequence works best if Padmé & Anakin are already good friends by that point.
    It wasn't enough at all. EP II had its own fault of course.

    Shmi's death should be in the first one so EP II's emotion could all focus on Anakin and Padme, which was a big reason why this romance didn't go well.

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