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  1. #241
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    It's not really a take per se but "a certain point of view" looking at it from the Jedi's perspective. I'm also trying to contextualize it with Luke's action leading up and in the ST.
    It's well thought out. As for the 'interesting' part, I mostly meant that I'd never really heard Obi-Wan faulted for not reporting his suspicions about Anakin and Padme to the Council. I tend to see Obi-Wan as the most blameless character in the PT, essentially caught between forces outside his control and doing his best to mitigate the damage.

    Obi knew about Anakin's affair with Padme well before the Twins. When you look at it from that point of view, it vilifies the Jedi in a sense, for being so dogmatic. It also puts Obi in the camp of aiding Palpatine in his plan to turn Anakin, but not on purpose.
    Agreed on the first part. As for the second, I think if Obi-Wan had reported Anakin to the Council it simply would have accelerated Palpatine's timetable and ended poorly. Anakin would have been forced out of the order and joined Palpatine, Order 66 happens earlier, and he probably has more prep time for his confrontation with Obi-Wan (assuming he even survives Order 66 under difference circumstances). So the outcome would have been potentially catastrophic, with Obi-Wan dead and Anakin serving the Empire at peak Force potential.

    Hence Luke's speech to Rey about the Jedi being blind and it sheds more light onto why he is bitter. Luke learned the truth and while Vader's sacrifice was monumental, Luke discovered the Jedi, which is something he wanted to be for years, were not much better than the Empire in their dogma. Which then leads him into doubt, doubt leads to fear, fear leads to suffering, and he makes the same mistake as the Jedi of old would have with Ben.
    It's an interesting counter to Obi-Wan, who seemed fully aware of the Jedi Order's faults during the PT, but romanticized it more in their absence. Both were cynical in their old age, but Obi-Wan faulted the collapse of the Jedi Order, and Luke its continued influence.

    Luke realized the Jedi way needed to die but Rey wants them to survive, which is why I think the new Force users (at least the good ones) will be known as Skywalkers. They will be what Qui-gon was moving towards, what Obi wanted before it was too late, what Yoda realized they need to be after it was too late, and what Luke learned after his new Jedi Order was destroyed and everything he fought for was lost.
    Very well put. I feel like this is the only way it can end at this point.

    In my mind, I never could accept Luke as the plucky super Jedi he became in the Bantum stuff. Even without the knowledge we gained in the PT, Obi AND Yoda lied to him ... a lot. And to me, once he started digging into the past, it would make him bitter. Add in all the PT stuff and it really makes sense as to why he would be bitter and a loner. Then you have his Jedi Order being wiped out and his own nephew going down the path he avoided. There is no way he would be the OT whiny, plucky, naive Luke. I think Rey began to change his heart, though, and we'll see that in RoS.
    I'm agreed, with the caveat that there is the potential for some kind of middle ground between "plucky superhero" and "the Jedi must die." But that's a moot point now, because as you've pointed out, Luke's heart was changed by the end of TLJ. I fully expect ROS will dive deeper into its more controversial aspects, and perhaps reveal Palpatine's influence behind the scenes.

  2. #242
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    The ending?

    As Rey and Kylo face off, Starkiller from Force Unleashed 2 drops in, out duels both, and declares the era of the Grey Jedi is at hand.

  3. #243
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    The ending?

    Han wakes up and tells Leia about the weird dream he had. Leia tells him he is working too hard and to take the week off and hang out with Chewie while she goes to attend the opening of Luke's new Jedi Academy.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero Kaiser View Post
    They did not willingly join and fight in the Clone Wars just to destroy the dark side.
    They did. They STARTED the war, remember, on Geonosis. Yes, Sidious had manipulated (and would continue to manipulate) events to create the situation where the Jedi were left with the choices they had, but it was a Jedi invasion of Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan that started the Clone Wars. They did so of their own volition, AFTER the Senate had approved the creation of a Republic Army which could have been left to handle things.

    It's true that the war was coming either way. Sidious calling the shots on both sides assured it. But nobody forced the Jedi to lead troops during the war. They did so because they believed the Sith controlled the Separatists. Sidious' only manipulation of the Jedi at that point was dangling Dooku out as Darth Tyrannus, bait to an organization eager to end the threat of the hated Sith.

  5. #245
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    The seperatists were also arming with Battle Droids provided by the Trade Federation and similar organizations.


    Dooku's main deception wasn't really revealed until that point. In the beginning of the film, the council didn't really seem to see Dooku as a threat. Dooku pointed out that the Sith were controlling the Republic to Obi-Wan and he was fighting against them(a sort of half-truth), he seems to be only be outed as a Sith himself at the end of the film.
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  6. #246
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    The end, is this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqgJye7hyc

    Everything else is just a big nightmare that Luke is having after he went on a bender.

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