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  1. #226
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    It's possible that ROS and the upcoming Marvel series will possibly add more context to the inciddent. I think it's hinted that Ben was already sort of on his way to the dark side, but Luke's actions may have been the breaking point.
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  2. #227
    Incredible Member abulafia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Some new spots have appeared, one with Rey holding a strange dagger (You can see part of it in other trailers where she's shattering the Vader shrine).
    the dagger is from star wars rebels and is rumored to be the mcguffin. so more support for the spoiler leaks to be accurate. seems like they are more than just clickbaits, aj bob.
    in almost two weeks we will know
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

  3. #228
    Incredible Member Hawkgirl_70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tv horror View Post
    I have to write something before the saga ends, there was no way that Luke would strike down a sleeping Kylo that destroyed my interest in these films, leave the original three movies alone. I won't be going to see the new film which will be the first time since 77 that I haven't, Han, Luke, Leia deserved better even poor Lando and Chewie. I have no interest in these new characters other than BB8 and Finn and the way it's going Lando says to him "Finn...I am your father!" Please don't end on this stupidity.
    Amen! Well said and agree 100%.
    These crap movies never happened in our household.
    We only recognize the original 6 movies + Rogue One and our new favorite show, Baby Yoda.
    Reliving my second childhood.... Making my TPB's take a back seat.....I'm now a new DC Omnibus and Hard Bound Book Collector: Batman: The Golden Age Omni V1 / Legends of the Dark Knight: Jim Aparo Vol. 2 / Gotham Central Omni / Justice League of America Silver Age Omni's V1 & V2 / Superman: The Golden Age Omni V1/ Green Lantern Omni V1
    with many more purchases soon to come.....

  4. #229
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    So there's been some rumors about Colin Tremorrow version's, including that Rey was the daughter of Leia's maid and that's how she and Kylo vaguely know each other. However, Colin has stated the rumors are not true (and honestly that would kind of be lame. Almost like having Luke and Leia being the daughters of Padme's handmaiden or something).
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 12-05-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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  5. #230
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Looks like Lando + Wedge aren't the only guys coming back.



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  6. #231
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Had Obi-wan not shielded others like the Council from Anakin's darkness, Vader never would have been born.

    Given Obi's dalliances during the Clone Wars and Qui-gon's influence, the case could be made that Obi ended up being the catalyst to turn Anakin dark.

    Palpatine seized on that and twisted him further, preying on Obi and Anakin's friendship.

    Had Obi not been Anakin's friend, he might not have failed him and inadvertently helped him turn to the Dark Side. He probably would've turned him over to the Council at some point before he was too powerful.

    Also, if Mace or Yoda followed their feelings about Anakin, and spent a little more time with him, they probably would've figured out before it was too late that they misread the prophecy.

    Like Luke said, their hubris was their downfall. Luke was learning the Jedi were not all they could or should be and that broke him.

    Which is why he almost killed Ben Solo, instead of helping him. Just like the Jedi of old. Luke was no better than them. But Luke figured that out too late.

    I'm sure we're going get more context on Vader with Palps coming back, too.

    I can't wait to see how and what they add with the final movie.
    That's an interesting take. I've always felt like Obi-Wan was the only one holding Anakin back from the Dark Side for as long as he did, and that Palpatine specifically manipulated events to keep Anakin and Obi-Wan apart as much as possible.

    I'd go so far as to argue Obi-Wan was the model Jedi. He wasn't as dogmatic as Yoda, Mace and the rest of the Council, but he wasn't undisciplined either. If he'd been given another twenty years with the Council under normal circumstances, he probably would have reformed it from within.

    Obi-Wan came across as much more empathetic than the Council, and I think he could have explained some of the things they tried to in terms Anakin might have accepted (if there was ever any hope of his acceptance). Yoda's 'rejoice for friends who pass into the Force' speech, for instance, was a terrible way to approach the problem Anakin came to him with. As far as Anakin was concerned, Yoda confirmed the validity of the vision and told him the Jedi didn't care if his friends and loved ones died.

    Had Anakin come to Obi-Wan instead, he might have warned him of the dangers of reading too much into the vision, or explained the Jedi's philosophy on attachment in more grounded and less callous terms.

    People tend to give Obi-Wan a lot of crap over his 'from a certain point of view' line but I think it's just another example of his flexibility (in a good way). If he had told Luke who Vader was early on, he probably would have felt the pull of the Dark Side a lot sooner, and been unprepared for it. As it happened, things fell into place at the perfect time. Obi-Wan's biggest mistake in the OT is his conviction that the only way to end the Empire is for Luke to kill Vader--a holdover of sorts from the more dogmatic approach of the Jedi Order (and his own guilt for failing to kill Anakin).
    Last edited by David Walton; 12-05-2019 at 01:02 PM.

  7. #232
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    That's an interesting take. I've always felt like Obi-Wan was the only one holding Anakin back from the Dark Side for as long as he did, and that Palpatine specifically manipulated events to keep Anakin and Obi-Wan apart as much as possible.

    I'd go so far as to argue Obi-Wan was the model Jedi. He wasn't as dogmatic as Yoda, Mace and the rest of the Council, but he wasn't undisciplined either. If he'd been given another twenty years with the Council under normal circumstances, he probably would have reformed it from within.

    Obi-Wan came across as much more empathetic than the Council, and I think he could have explained some of the things they tried to in terms Anakin might have accepted (if there was ever any hope of his acceptance). Yoda's 'rejoice for friends who pass into the Force' speech, for instance, was a terrible way to approach the problem Anakin came to him with. As far as Anakin was concerned, he confirmed the validity of the vision and told him the Jedi didn't care if his friends and loved ones died.

    Had Anakin come to Obi-Wan instead, he might have warned him of the dangers of reading too much into the vision, or explained the Jedi's philosophy on attachment in more grounded and less callous terms.
    It's not really a take per se but "a certain point of view" looking at it from the Jedi's perspective. I'm also trying to contextualize it with Luke's action leading up and in the ST.

    Obi knew about Anakin's affair with Padme well before the Twins. When you look at it from that point of view, it vilifies the Jedi in a sense, for being so dogmatic. It also puts Obi in the camp of aiding Palpatine in his plan to turn Anakin, but not on purpose.

    Hence Luke's speech to Rey about the Jedi being blind and it sheds more light onto why he is bitter. Luke learned the truth and while Vader's sacrifice was monumental, Luke discovered the Jedi, which is something he wanted to be for years, were not much better than the Empire in their dogma. Which then leads him into doubt, doubt leads to fear, fear leads to suffering, and he makes the same mistake as the Jedi of old would have with Ben.

    Luke realized the Jedi way needed to die but Rey wants them to survive, which is why I think the new Force users (at least the good ones) will be known as Skywalkers. They will be what Qui-gon was moving towards, what Obi wanted before it was too late, what Yoda realized they need to be after it was too late, and what Luke learned after his new Jedi Order was destroyed and everything he fought for was lost.

    In my mind, I never could accept Luke as the plucky super Jedi he became in the Bantum stuff. Even without the knowledge we gained in the PT, Obi AND Yoda lied to him ... a lot. And to me, once he started digging into the past, it would make him bitter. Add in all the PT stuff and it really makes sense as to why he would be bitter and a loner. Then you have his Jedi Order being wiped out and his own nephew going down the path he avoided. There is no way he would be the OT whiny, plucky, naive Luke. I think Rey began to change his heart, though, and we'll see that in RoS.

    I think you're right in that if Anakin went to Obi, he might have talked some sense into him.

    I'm sure when RoS is out, we'll know even more.
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 12-05-2019 at 01:50 PM.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #233
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Looks like Lando + Wedge aren't the only guys coming back.



    https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLea...urn_of_wicket/
    I hate how paint by the numbers that makes the third film, but I'll be damned if that picture didn't make me smile! I love Warwick Davis.

  9. #234
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I hate how paint by the numbers that makes the third film, but I'll be damned if that picture didn't make me smile! I love Warwick Davis.
    He's been rumored to be in the Mandalorian, too.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  10. #235
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    He's been rumored to be in the Mandalorian, too.
    Either way, Ewoks are always great.

  11. #236
    Fantastic Member tv horror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl_70 View Post
    Amen! Well said and agree 100%.
    These crap movies never happened in our household.
    We only recognize the original 6 movies + Rogue One and our new favorite show, Baby Yoda.
    Thank you we think alike. As for Rise my theory is that Rey IS a Skywalker and Kylo's twin she is also ""The Other" that Yoda mentioned not Leia but a future Skywalker. It stands to reason that she was spirited away much like Luke and Leia to protect them and Luke thought by training Kylo that they would stand a chance if ever found out.
    Hail Hydra!

  12. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    It's not really a take per se but "a certain point of view" looking at it from the Jedi's perspective. I'm also trying to contextualize it with Luke's action leading up and in the ST.

    Obi knew about Anakin's affair with Padme well before the Twins. When you look at it from that point of view, it vilifies the Jedi in a sense, for being so dogmatic. It also puts Obi in the camp of aiding Palpatine in his plan to turn Anakin, but not on purpose.

    Hence Luke's speech to Rey about the Jedi being blind and it sheds more light onto why he is bitter. Luke learned the truth and while Vader's sacrifice was monumental, Luke discovered the Jedi, which is something he wanted to be for years, were not much better than the Empire in their dogma. Which then leads him into doubt, doubt leads to fear, fear leads to suffering, and he makes the same mistake as the Jedi of old would have with Ben.

    Luke realized the Jedi way needed to die but Rey wants them to survive, which is why I think the new Force users (at least the good ones) will be known as Skywalkers. They will be what Qui-gon was moving towards, what Obi wanted before it was too late, what Yoda realized they need to be after it was too late, and what Luke learned after his new Jedi Order was destroyed and everything he fought for was lost.

    In my mind, I never could accept Luke as the plucky super Jedi he became in the Bantum stuff. Even without the knowledge we gained in the PT, Obi AND Yoda lied to him ... a lot. And to me, once he started digging into the past, it would make him bitter. Add in all the PT stuff and it really makes sense as to why he would be bitter and a loner. Then you have his Jedi Order being wiped out and his own nephew going down the path he avoided. There is no way he would be the OT whiny, plucky, naive Luke. I think Rey began to change his heart, though, and we'll see that in RoS.

    I think you're right in that if Anakin went to Obi, he might have talked some sense into him.

    I'm sure when RoS is out, we'll know even more.
    I didn't really see Rey having that big of an affect on Luke if any. It's one of the reasons I didn't get his 180 when it came to the end of the last movie.

  13. #238
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tv horror View Post
    I have to write something before the saga ends, there was no way that Luke would strike down a sleeping Kylo that destroyed my interest in these films, leave the original three movies alone. I won't be going to see the new film which will be the first time since 77 that I haven't, Han, Luke, Leia deserved better even poor Lando and Chewie. I have no interest in these new characters other than BB8 and Finn and the way it's going Lando says to him "Finn...I am your father!" Please don't end on this stupidity.
    Speaking of Finn, what a wasted opportunity.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  14. #239
    Wrath of a God Xero Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Speaking of Finn, what a wasted opportunity.
    I will always be mad about how they screwed Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by tv horror View Post
    As for Rise my theory is that Rey IS a Skywalker and Kylo's twin
    Kylo is 10 years older than Rey. I don't think twins work like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    Ok, try this on for size. I'm not remotely referring to Luke's actions, I'm referring to his intent. Luke was trying to destroy the dark side. Exactly as the Jedi of old did. They fought a war to try and destroy it, recall. They may not have phrased it in such terms, but the Clone Wars were a war between the Jedi and the Sith, with the galaxy trapped in the middle getting slaughtered.
    Not really? The Jedi were conscripted to fight by the senate/Sidious. They did not willingly join and fight in the Clone Wars just to destroy the dark side.

  15. #240
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    So in some of the latest trailers you can see the U-wings from Rogue One also in the big battle scene. Some also seem to be spotting PT-era ships too. Lot of fans seem to be comparing it to ENDGAME, but for ships.
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