NFL 2018 Regular Season Thread

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Hall of Fame reveals 25 semifinalists for Class of 2019

The list includes Tony Gonzalez, Ty Law, Champ Bailey, John Lynch, Isaac Bruce and head coach Jimmy Johnson.

Tony Gonzalez should be a 1st time Hall of Fame. He revolutionized the TE position. He made it what we see today with how they line up as WR's and imagine if he had Pat Mahomes then . Sorry Gronk , Tony Gonzalez was the originator and he never had the greatest QB in NFL history throwing to him.

[Jackmando7]

Tony Gonzalez should be a 1st time Hall of Fame. He revolutionized the TE position. He made it what we see today with how they line up as WR's and imagine if he had Pat Mahomes then . Sorry Gronk , Tony Gonzalez was the originator and he never had the greatest QB in NFL history throwing to him.

Did you know steelers LB TJ Watt is just one of six NFL LBs since 2000 to have 17 sacks in his first 25 games? Some people call him TJ, and some just call him "badass." Thoughts?

[Surf]

Hall of Fame reveals 25 semifinalists for Class of 2019

The list includes Tony Gonzalez, Ty Law, Champ Bailey, John Lynch, Isaac Bruce and head coach Jimmy Johnson.

For a lot of years Champ Bailey was my favorite player in the league, not even on that side of the ball, just flat out. He stuck around after his injury probably a couple seasons too long but the game owed him that much. Happens to all the great players. Guys like Rice and T.O. and Moss, I mean those were giant guys, not saying it's 'easy' by any stretch to be a professional athlete but for a guy only 6' to be a shutdown corner and be as fast and smart in the routes as he was is so impressive, good for him. I'm old enough now that all of the HOF'ers coming in are all guys I saw play year after year and most even from college.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Tony Gonzalez should be a 1st time Hall of Fame. He revolutionized the TE position. He made it what we see today with how they line up as WR's and imagine if he had Pat Mahomes then . Sorry Gronk , Tony Gonzalez was the originator and he never had the greatest QB in NFL history throwing to him.

Gronk’s still better. That’s like saying Rice can’t be the GOAT because he had Montana and Young

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Did you know steelers LB TJ Watt is just one of six NFL LBs since 2000 to have 17 sacks in his first 25 games? Some people call him TJ, and some just call him "badass." Thoughts?

That is pretty impressive. It will be interesting to see if he can keep it going.

Gronk’s still better. That’s like saying Rice can’t be the GOAT because he had Montana and Young

Gronk has became more average this season . Teams have basically taken him away (its why they made that trade for Gordon...Gronk was being taken away with no deep threat). Now imagine if they didn't trade for Gordon and lets say that they kept going as we saw. How much more would Gronk be limited ? And Gordon now has more yards than Gronk now on the team.

And yes having Hall of Fame QB's help you . Rice benefited a hell of a lot from Montana and Young. He went to Oakland and had a couple decent seasons with Rich Gannon but make no mistake ...having 2 Hall of Fame QB's help. Its the same way Randy Moss as a Hall of Fame QB struggled with 2 bad QB's in his time (Dante Culpepper and Oakland's QB dumpster fire in early 2000's after Gannon). Moss was gave up on and went to Patriots and put up 2-3 big seasons.

Gronk declined a trade because he wanted to have Brady keep throwing to him. Because he likely knew , this whole "UNSTOPPABLE GRONK" talk would collapse if he played with Matthew Stafford as his QB . (They were talking to Lions about Gronkowski this off-season)

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

That is pretty impressive. It will be interesting to see if he can keep it going.



Gronk has became more average this season . Teams have basically taken him away (its why they made that trade for Gordon...Gronk was being taken away with no deep threat). Now imagine if they didn't trade for Gordon and lets say that they kept going as we saw. How much more would Gronk be limited ? And Gordon now has more yards than Gronk now on the team.

And yes having Hall of Fame QB's help you . Rice benefited a hell of a lot from Montana and Young. He went to Oakland and had a couple decent seasons with Rich Gannon but make no mistake ...having 2 Hall of Fame QB's help. Its the same way Randy Moss as a Hall of Fame QB struggled with 2 bad QB's in his time (Dante Culpepper and Oakland's QB dumpster fire in early 2000's after Gannon). Moss was gave up on and went to Patriots and put up 2-3 big seasons.

Gronk declined a trade because he wanted to have Brady keep throwing to him. Because he likely knew , this whole "UNSTOPPABLE GRONK" talk would collapse if he played with Matthew Stafford as his QB . (They were talking to Lions about Gronkowski this off-season)

Gronk was literally the only offensive threat and they abused the hell out of him early in the season even when he was getting tripled and he got hurt as a result. This was before they traded for Gordon and afterwards Gronk was banged up and eventually they rested him.

Gronk declines a trade because his body is breaking down because defensive backs keep mauling and destroying him because they can’t taje him down any other ways. He’s also saved up a shit ton of money and could have retired several years ago because of how smart he’s been with his money (he hasn’t spent a dime of anything he made in the NFL). He literally has no reason to play besides trying to win a Super Bowl. No other team gives him a better chance of that year in and year out

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Gronk’s still better. That’s like saying Rice can’t be the GOAT because he had Montana and Young

I beg to differ. If Aaron Hernandez hadn't self-destructed, Gronk might never have become Brady's favorite target for all these years. Not to disparage Gronkowski whom I'm sure will make it into Canton, but I can't put him ahead of Gonzalez who never had a sure fire Hall of Famer throwing to him (Matt Ryan in Atlanta; Brodie Croyle, Rich Gannon, Elvis Grbac, Trent Green, Damon Huard, Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City), and he STILL put up incredible numbers.

[Witchfan]

My predictions for the week

NFC North
Lions over Bears- Lions avenge their previous loss, get within two games of the the Bears
Packers over Vikings- the Packers need the game more. Both teams end up 5-5-1

NFC East
Cowboys over Redskins- Cowboys avenge previous loss, both teams end up 6-5
Eagles over Giants- must-win for the Eagles. They end up one game back.

NFC South
Saints over Falcons
49ers over Bucs- both teams end up 3-8
Seahawks over Panthers- Panthers lose third in a row, both teams end up 6-5

AFC South
Texans over Titans- Titans win eighth straight, pull within one game of the Chiefs
Bills over Jaguars- Bills avenge their playoff loss
Colts over Dolphins

AFC North
Bengals over Browns
Ravens over Raiders
Steelers over Broncos- Steelers end up a half game behind the Chiefs.

AFC East
Patriots over Jets

The rest
Chargers over Cardinals

[BeastieRunner]

Hall of Fame reveals 25 semifinalists for Class of 2019

The list includes Tony Gonzalez, Ty Law, Champ Bailey, John Lynch, Isaac Bruce and head coach Jimmy Johnson.

Tony, Ty, and Champ should be shoe-ins.

Ed Reed and Zach Thomas are my dark horse picks.

IMHO.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I beg to differ. If Aaron Hernandez hadn't self-destructed, Gronk might never have become Brady's favorite target for all these years. Not to disparage Gronkowski whom I'm sure will make it into Canton, but I can't put him ahead of Gonzalez who never had a sure fire Hall of Famer throwing to him (Matt Ryan in Atlanta; Brodie Croyle, Rich Gannon, Elvis Grbac, Trent Green, Damon Huard, Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City), and he STILL put up incredible numbers.

Matt Ryan has one of the best QB years ever without Gonzalez. And again you put that logic on Jerry Rice. Or LT who had Belichick coaching him. Or Brown who had stacked teams and the best coach of the pre Super Bowl era.

[Surf]

In certain arguments I feel the physical 'specimen' guys just genetically edge out some of their peers. It also lends them to have longer careers to pad their weight statistically. That said if I'm starting a football team of past and present players in their prime, where the fate of the earth against a race of cartoonish aliens depends on us winning. It's Gronk all day, and I loathe the Patriots. Tony G. was physical too but he wasn't throwin' cats out of the club on his way down the field. I don't think it's that close either.

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines in Kill Bill vol. 2. Tony G is a great, for a Chief.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Gronk was literally the only offensive threat and they abused the hell out of him early in the season even when he was getting tripled and he got hurt as a result. This was before they traded for Gordon and afterwards Gronk was banged up and eventually they rested him.

Gronk declines a trade because his body is breaking down because defensive backs keep mauling and destroying him because they can’t taje him down any other ways. He’s also saved up a shit ton of money and could have retired several years ago because of how smart he’s been with his money (he hasn’t spent a dime of anything he made in the NFL). He literally has no reason to play besides trying to win a Super Bowl. No other team gives him a better chance of that year in and year out

Gronk was joked about years ago about being an idiot with money on SNL....



He's always been fighting injuries basically and has missed a number of games his career as well as I pointed out a long while back. This season while he did play showed...e's not an unstoppable force really. Before the Gordon trade Gronkowski only had 1 game where he went over 100+ yards receiving and it was week 1. Then teams started double teaming him , taking him away for the next few weeks til he played KC and he got over 90+ yards receiving. He's only played in 7 games thus far.

Gronkowski is a good TE ...but without Brady and the rings he's a guy who is ok. He's like Jimmy Graham who had 1 or 2 great seasons in New Orleans and had folks proclaiming how he was better than Gonzalez. But once he was gone from Brees and all he became an average TE.

I beg to differ. If Aaron Hernandez hadn't self-destructed, Gronk might never have become Brady's favorite target for all these years. Not to disparage Gronkowski whom I'm sure will make it into Canton, but I can't put him ahead of Gonzalez who never had a sure fire Hall of Famer throwing to him (Matt Ryan in Atlanta; Brodie Croyle, Rich Gannon, Elvis Grbac, Trent Green, Damon Huard, Tyler Thigpen in Kansas City), and he STILL put up incredible numbers.

Having a great QB helps for sure. Gonzalez did his damage and led that Chiefs team in receiving with crap QB's. His final years he had Matt Ryan which helps a lot and he basically was a great piece to have for a learning Matt Ryan those final seasons. Ryan had a safety net to throw to in Gonzalez who could make those catches across the middle .

In certain arguments I feel the physical 'specimen' guys just genetically edge out some of their peers. It also lends them to have longer careers to pad their weight statistically. That said if I'm starting a football team of past and present players in their prime, where the fate of the earth against a race of cartoonish aliens depends on us winning. It's Gronk all day, and I loathe the Patriots. Tony G. was physical too but he wasn't throwin' cats out of the club on his way down the field. I don't think it's that close either.

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines in Kill Bill vol. 2. Tony G is a great, for a Chief.

Being physical is great at times and throwing cats happens with a ton of players. But honestly , give me the healthy guy who played with QB's who really wasn't Hall of Fame and caught EVERYTHING nearly his way. I don't hate Gronk but I want someone who A) Stays healthy B) Can do everything and more than Gronk can . C) I could start a rookie or anyone at QB and Gonzalez will still put up numbers.


Edit : And fate of the world ...yeah I start Gonzalez because Gronk suddenly gets injured in game and now I'm needing a healthy guy. So yeah fate of the world against aliens I start the sure fire guy and its Gonzalez.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I really don't care what SNL jokes about and it's ridiculous to use a skit to make a point. Gronk famously never touched a single cent from his NFL salary and only ever spent his endorsement money. In addition, he's actually been proactive in investing his money. He's far from an idiot with money and doesn't need a paycheck anymore.

As far as his performance this year... again context is everything. Gronk started the season with him being the only viable receiving threat. Amedola and Cooks were gone. Edelman was suspended. Matthews, Britt, and Decker got cut in camp after injuries. The WR corp consisted of Hogan who was now facing #1 CB's which took him out of the game, and James White. As a result teams were able to double and triple team Gronk. Nobody comes out of game well on that. Rice, Moss, even Gonzalez would not be having good games under that. And as a result Brady still forced balls to Gronk and he got physically hurt doing that. Using the addition of Gordon as a detraction on Gronk is incredibly misleading. At that point Gordon was the only credible receiver on the team who wasn't Gronk.

Gonzalez would not have fared better. Nobody would have. Also it's kinda dumb to weigh one year against the other 8 years of his career as though it means something. People have up and down years. Should I hold Gonzo's first two years against him and say it proves anything? Should I use Rice's last year?

Now you're just being a homer for Gonzo and making up things about Gronk. The idea that he is just Jimmy Graham without Brady is insane. We saw Graham with Drew Brees who blows up his pass catchers stats. He wasn't better than Gronk. Gonzo also played on a team with a guy who routinely compiles stats in Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan has actually been a better fantasy QB than Brady in that respect many years (he's one of the best fantasy QB's in the league generally). A fact that benefits the people who catch his passes. Gonzo with Ryan was not producing at a better level than Gronk routinely does despite having a QB more conducive to stats.

And to be totally honest, what's your argument for Gonzo not having his best producing years with the best QB he's had? Why didn't his stats drastically improve with Ryan? That's the correlation you're making right? Well why doesn't it hold true with Gonzo? His stats on average got worse when he went to Ryan and he stopped winning All Pro's all the time (minus 2012).

On a per play and per game basis Gronk is better in nearly every regard. This idea that Gonzo does anything better than Gronk is foolish. He has a smaller catch radius, he's far easier to bring down, he's a greater red zone threat, he's a million times the blocker, he's a bigger mismatch due to his physicality and it screws up LB's who are too slow to catch him and CB's who are too small to tackle him (while Gonzo was closer to Graham in that he was not a protypical TE and more of a WR). Gronk actually does everything Gonzo excelled at and then was an elite blocker (and don't use that stupid factoid about Gonzo who RARELY ever pass protected never letting up a sack, Gronk legit had whole gameplans where he was on the field as an extra blocker).

The only real argument for Gonzo over Gronk is health. And Gronk still played 80% of the games he was available for and plays upwards of 90% of the offensive snaps in those games. So the one thing Gonzo actually tangibly has over Gronk isn't even that impressive.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I really don't care what SNL jokes about and it's ridiculous to use a skit to make a point. Gronk famously never touched a single cent from his NFL salary and only ever spent his endorsement money. In addition, he's actually been proactive in investing his money. He's far from an idiot with money and doesn't need a paycheck anymore.

Then why did he demand a new redone contract this season ? I mean if Gronk was this successful with all his money why for months did he want a contract redone for more money ? Honestly yes SNL did a joke here and I don't care if he spends his endorsement money or not. No one really knows what he's spending his money on to be honest.

As far as his performance this year... again context is everything. Gronk started the season with him being the only viable receiving threat. Amedola and Cooks were gone. Edelman was suspended. Matthews, Britt, and Decker got cut in camp after injuries. The WR corp consisted of Hogan who was now facing #1 CB's which took him out of the game, and James White. As a result teams were able to double and triple team Gronk. Nobody comes out of game well on that. Rice, Moss, even Gonzalez would not be having good games under that. And as a result Brady still forced balls to Gronk and he got physically hurt doing that. Using the addition of Gordon as a detraction on Gronk is incredibly misleading. At that point Gordon was the only credible receiver on the team who wasn't Gronk.

Before this , months earlier you proclaimed how Gronk was such a monster he could handle double teams and more. I even said as much that a deep threat WR helped him put up huge numbers and listed the WR's across from Gronk who put up big numbers. That he had help having WR's across from him. Now here we are and once those WR's were gone ; Gronk was taken away by double teams. Gronk is just like any other TE and if you double and triple him ...he's taken away. Also Gronk being injured....NOT SHOCKED AT ALL. Since he has battled injuries his entire career.

Gonzalez would not have fared better. Nobody would have. Also it's kinda dumb to weigh one year against the other 8 years of his career as though it means something. People have up and down years. Should I hold Gonzo's first two years against him and say it proves anything? Should I use Rice's last year?

We weighed Gronk's 8 years , in those years he had WR's across from him. He had help that allowed him to work the middle. Should I again point to Brady as usual ? Should I point that Gonzalez had Elvis Grbac ? Which one do you think is better ? Also Rice's final season , he was barely on the field as a 40/41 year old and traded to Seattle.

Now you're just being a homer for Gonzo and making up things about Gronk. The idea that he is just Jimmy Graham without Brady is insane. We saw Graham with Drew Brees who blows up his pass catchers stats. He wasn't better than Gronk. Gonzo also played on a team with a guy who routinely compiles stats in Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan has actually been a better fantasy QB than Brady in that respect many years (he's one of the best fantasy QB's in the league generally). A fact that benefits the people who catch his passes. Gonzo with Ryan was not producing at a better level than Gronk routinely does despite having a QB more conducive to stats.

Gronk played with a Hall of Fame QB in his prime who was able to pass at will. Matt Ryan was a rookie QB coming in and had Gonzalez. Which one do you believe is gonna work better ? Also as point here ...

Matt Ryan
http://www.nfl.com/player/mattryan/310/profile


Tom Brady
http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/profile

Their fantasy stats look about the same from 2010-2013 basically. Both QB's threw the ball a lot and as pointed out the WR's helped. Ryan in 2011 got Julio Jones and had Roddy White as well. So Gonzalez didn't have to do the heavy lifting as much. Not like he had to do in KC. Gronk was helped by Cooks , Welker etc.

As far as the comparisons to Graham goes , people were saying how great he was due to a couple big seasons. Once he was gone...it stopped. Let Gronk go play without Brady and what happens ? Put Gronk on a team without a Hall of Fame QB as Gonzalez didn't have that. Let him have Grbac or Croyle throw him some passes comically.

And to be totally honest, what's your argument for Gonzo not having his best producing years with the best QB he's had? Why didn't his stats drastically improve with Ryan? That's the correlation you're making right? Well why doesn't it hold true with Gonzo? His stats on average got worse when he went to Ryan and he stopped winning All Pro's all the time (minus 2012).

As posted once the team added Jones and they already had White (former 1st rd pick) , there was only so many balls to go around. Gonzalez if he didn't have those guys dictating passes would likely have been in same position he was in KC. Where he was constantly the main target and having to get 1,000+ yards again. And Gonzalez himself in his late 30's was doing 800-900+ yard seasons in Atlanta.

On a per play and per game basis Gronk is better in nearly every regard. This idea that Gonzo does anything better than Gronk is foolish. He has a smaller catch radius, he's far easier to bring down, he's a greater red zone threat, he's a million times the blocker, he's a bigger mismatch due to his physicality and it screws up LB's who are too slow to catch him and CB's who are too small to tackle him (while Gonzo was closer to Graham in that he was not a protypical TE and more of a WR). Gronk actually does everything Gonzo excelled at and then was an elite blocker (and don't use that stupid factoid about Gonzo who RARELY ever pass protected never letting up a sack, Gronk legit had whole gameplans where he was on the field as an extra blocker).

Gonzalez became a better blocked as time passed and it was brought up how proud him and the offensive line was for blocking for Holmes and (name escapes me) in 2000's. As one guy joked Gonzalez as a blocker is usually over looked due to his coming out as a pure pass catching TE. Gronk is a good blocker sure. But you have posted this before . Yes I agree there he is better at blocking.

The only real argument for Gonzo over Gronk is health. And Gronk still played 80% of the games he was available for and plays upwards of 90% of the offensive snaps in those games. So the one thing Gonzo actually tangibly has over Gronk isn't even that impressive.

Better receiver , played with crap QB's , better red zone threat , better healthy and well....all around better. Again put Gronk with an average QB and what happens ?

[Scott Taylor]

Tony Gonzalez should be a 1st time Hall of Fame. He revolutionized the TE position. He made it what we see today with how they line up as WR's and imagine if he had Pat Mahomes then . Sorry Gronk , Tony Gonzalez was the originator and he never had the greatest QB in NFL history throwing to him.

Yep. Antonio Gates and Gronk are the only ones to come close, as far as modern era tight ends, but they both fall slightly short of Tony. In the all time, any era list - Gonzalez is still #1, while Gronk and Gates are top five.