Are there types of stories that shouldn't be told in Amazing Spider-Man?

[TheNewFiftyForum]

I'm kind of cheating here by answering a slightly different question than the one that was asked, but I think it's weird when secondary titles tell stories with huge ramifications that then doesn't affect the other titles at all. For example, a few years ago there was a secondary Batman title called Batman: The Dark Knight, in which Bruce Wayne met a new girlfriend who was then murdered by Mad Hatter, and it was never acknowledged anywhere else in the line. If it had happened in the main title it would probably still have been a tired story trope, but at least I would be able to buy it as something with a bit of narrative heft.

[Inversed]

I might've been clear in my first post (it's been edited for clarity.) It was a reference to a criticism of Amazing Spider-Man #801, Slott's last issue. The criticism was that it wasn't the right fit for Amazing Spider-Man, as it didn't feature Peter Parker or tie into any of the earlier stories from the title.

I disagree with that criticism, just because the main character doesn't show up doesn't mean the themes of the book can't be carried over, which I think 801 did really well. Spider-Man more than any other hero really has always been about saving as many people as possible and helping out as much as he can, even if it causes more trouble and stress for him. So to see how this one random act of kindness can completely effect someone's life allows you to put in perspective truly how much of an influence Spider-Man has on the people, and that even when sometimes he believes he's not doing good enough, he is succeeding in his goals.

[blackspidey2099]

I honestly think Spider-Man is a character that can work in essentially any story, from the more regular sci-fi and/or crime stories he usually appears in, to even stories regarding magic and supernatural elements (as JMS so masterfully proved in his run). Setting limits for what should or shouldn't be told accomplished nothing but ruin the creative process.

[Scott Taylor]

I honestly think Spider-Man is a character that can work in essentially any story, from the more regular sci-fi and/or crime stories he usually appears in, to even stories regarding magic and supernatural elements (as JMS so masterfully proved in his run). Setting limits for what should or shouldn't be told accomplished nothing but ruin the creative process.

So true. The character even worked when it was one of his deadliest foes masquerading as him. That gets about as far out as it can get.

[Uncanny Mutie]

I hesitate to say that there are stories that shouldn't be told in Amazing Spider-Man, since you can pretty much write any stories you want in the title, but I do think there are stories that fit Spider-Man and stories that don't.

Like, for instance, Spider-Verse. For me, what makes that a Spider-Man story? Sure, there are Spider-Men and Women involved in the story, but the actual main Spider-Man didn't really seem to have any personal or emotional investment in what was going on. There was nothing to really ground or bring the events close to home for Peter, and no involvement or interaction with his main supporting cast to where it would have any kind of impact on his personal life. The less said about the Silk "relationship," the better. So, personally, that doesn't feel like a Spider-Man story to me.

It's also just funny in hindsight to look at Slott's run now that he's writing both FF and Iron Man because it feels like a lot of his run was spent trying to have Spider-Man check boxes that those titles are more known for. Does that mean those were more FF or Iron Man stories then Spider-Man?

I definitely agree with you about Spider-Verse. And I especially agree with you about the bolded part.

In hindsight, now that Slott is writing Iron Man and Fantastic Four, it DEFINITELY feels like he was just using a good portion of his ASM run as a dry run or a practice for what he wanted to do once he finally got the chance to write Fantastic Four and especially Iron Man. That's why the last few years of Slott's run didn't even feel like stories that fit Spider-Man to me, because they WEREN'T. They were stories that fit other characters that he wanted to write, and he was using Spider-Man/ASM as a slick rehearsal book for other characters who he wanted to write. It would explain why he made Peter basically become Tony Stark lite, and why he had him doing stuff like space missions and dimension hopping like the Fantastic Four usually does.

It makes me feel even more cheated as a Spider-Man fan who endured the run to practically have it confirmed that the reason the last few years of Slott's run felt more like other characters' stories than Spider-Man stories is because he was using ASM to practice writing the characters who he made Spider-Man's stories feel like, and especially since at the time, he vehemently denied that that's what he was doing.

[AnthonyO'Brien]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 1980's public service comic where Spidey tells a child that he too was abused by an older boy.
Is this cannon? If Spidey was more "grim 'n gritty" it would be mentioned more often.
Sexual abuse or assault doesn't seem to fit in spidey either , there was that black cat team up series Kevin Smith did years ago where Felecia admits to being assaulted. It didn't set the world on fire.

Spidey fighting powerful alien foes is something that doesn't fit either. I was reading his 1985 battle with Firelord and though it was interesting seeing him fight someone more powerful than he it was not something I want to see every month. What are your views on this?

[Minerboh]

Yep... The ones that change well beloved characters into annoying and whinning brats that doesn't know what exactly want from their other half (looking at you, MJ!).

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 1980's public service comic where Spidey tells a child that he too was abused by an older boy.
Is this cannon? If Spidey was more "grim 'n gritty" it would be mentioned more often.
Sexual abuse or assault doesn't seem to fit in spidey either , there was that black cat team up series Kevin Smith did years ago where Felecia admits to being assaulted. It didn't set the world on fire.

Spidey fighting powerful alien foes is something that doesn't fit either. I was reading his 1985 battle with Firelord and though it was interesting seeing him fight someone more powerful than he it was not something I want to see every month. What are your views on this?

It didn't set the world on fire, fair enough, but given how too many people in real life have been victims/survivors of sexual assault and abuse, it can add a darkly humanizing aspect to otherwise fantastical characters, though it should be handled with genuine care for both the characters and real-life victims/survivors, as opposed to a cheap plot device to heighten the animosity between the hero and villain du jour. Sadly, too many comic writers in the past have used it as exactly that, and that's when they're not getting into old sci-fi/fantasy tropes of mental and/or emotional tampering, manipulation, domination, or outright control that in retrospect raise some very thorny issues about consent.

As for whether or not those stories should be told in Spider-Man comics, I would say, once again, that they have to be handled with genuine care and respect for both the characters and real-life victims or survivors of sexual assault and abuse. The best superhero stories to me, Spider-Man or not, have always been ones that ultimately reflect the human condition and address longstanding human struggles through the otherwise-fantastical lens of a superhuman setting. Given that Spider-Man is probably one of the most human of superheroes, in mindset if not necessarily abilities, and his writers have had little problem tackling other more troubling aspects of the human condition or human society through his viewpoint, I wouldn't say it's beyond them to tackle the harsh realities of sexual assault and abuse.

[Mister Mets]

It didn't set the world on fire, fair enough, but given how too many people in real life have been victims/survivors of sexual assault and abuse, it can add a darkly humanizing aspect to otherwise fantastical characters, though it should be handled with genuine care for both the characters and real-life victims/survivors, as opposed to a cheap plot device to heighten the animosity between the hero and villain du jour. Sadly, too many comic writers in the past have used it as exactly that, and that's when they're not getting into old sci-fi/fantasy tropes of mental and/or emotional tampering, manipulation, domination, or outright control that in retrospect raise some very thorny issues about consent.

As for whether or not those stories should be told in Spider-Man comics, I would say, once again, that they have to be handled with genuine care and respect for both the characters and real-life victims or survivors of sexual assault and abuse. The best superhero stories to me, Spider-Man or not, have always been ones that ultimately reflect the human condition and address longstanding human struggles through the otherwise-fantastical lens of a superhuman setting. Given that Spider-Man is probably one of the most human of superheroes, in mindset if not necessarily abilities, and his writers have had little problem tackling other more troubling aspects of the human condition or human society through his viewpoint, I wouldn't say it's beyond them to tackle the harsh realities of sexual assault and abuse.

There was an interesting interview on the Crawlspace with the editor of a reprint line covering the newspaper comics. He discussed a story where the newspaper Peter talked about being the victim of that kind of abuse, and thought that it was important to show to younger readers that this isn't anything to be shamed of. It's a sensitive topic, but I do get the perspective that there are tremendous merits to depicting it even in the context of Spider-Man comics.

[origami]

For me, how Peter got his spider powers has simple elegance, a dying, radioactive spider bit him, he just randomly happened to be there at the "right place at the right" time.

Stories that tried to redefine the source of his spider powers are not needed, for example, the spider totem concept during J. Michael Straczynski's run.

[Hypestyle]

mass murder. I don't want to see a somewhat cliche' throwdown where Peter has to hold back on a villain who "clearly" deserves a harsh end.

We've already seen the Sin Eater story years ago, which was handled well. I hope that there's no copycat.

[Huntsman Spider]

mass murder. I don't want to see a somewhat cliche' throwdown where Peter has to hold back on a villain who "clearly" deserves a harsh end.

We've already seen the Sin Eater story years ago, which was handled well. I hope that there's no copycat.

So Carnage has to die for good, as do Norman Osborn, the literally named Massacre, and --- depending on if you still count Revenge of the Sinister Six from the early 90s Spider-Man comics as canon --- most if not all the Sinister Six, who slaughtered 143,000 inhabitants of an alternate dimension from which they stole high-powered weapons and then came back to this one and killed at least four dozen more people with those same weapons. Oh, and they were led by Doctor Octopus at the time. Hmm, come to think of it, there are a lot of villains who should be permanently dead by now, just by virtue of the utter horror and monstrosity of their actions and the casual disregard for life they exhibit through said actions, even the ones Marvel was/is trying to sell us on as sympathetic or redeemable.

[arosenbarger]

One More Day.

Totem.

Clone stories.

Maximum Carnage.

[phantom1592]

In a review of Slott's last issue, a panelist said one knock against the story was that it felt like something that wasn't Amazing Spider-Man. It would have functioned as a back-up in an annual, or as an issue of a Tangled Web style anthology.

This leads to an interesting question. What type of stories are the wrong fit for Amazing Spider-Man? The material may be good, but it's the wrong title. Is there any such story where even if the creative team of ASM wanted to tell it, they should opt for another book?

I don't see the point in relegating certain stories under certain titles. There are a lot of stories I don't want to see Spider-man in. Dark and gritty to the max with child sex rings or stuff like I don't want to see. Things like Spider-man killing MJ through sex because of his radiation... That's just horrible.

But that has nothing to do with the title 'Amazing Spider-man'. I don't want to read that stuff in Spectacular, Web of, annuals or one-shots either. If it works in Spectacular then it should work in Amazing.

[Huntsman Spider]

I don't see the point in relegating certain stories under certain titles. There are a lot of stories I don't want to see Spider-man in. Dark and gritty to the max with child sex rings or stuff like I don't want to see. Things like Spider-man killing MJ through sex because of his radiation... That's just horrible.

But that has nothing to do with the title 'Amazing Spider-man'. I don't want to read that stuff in Spectacular, Web of, annuals or one-shots either. If it works in Spectacular then it should work in Amazing.

Child sex trafficking rings might work out better in Scarlet Spider or Venom, or in the books of one of Spider-Man's more anti-heroic allies that isn't necessarily also associated with a spider motif. Maybe Cardiac, given his issues with how the wealthy and powerful exploit the law to get away with abusing and exploiting people. Come to think of it, Kaine had to deal with human traffickers in his first issue and they were something of a recurrent menace, which was how he got Aracely/Hummingbird as his charge/sidekick, so it wouldn't be like there was no precedent for this in a Spider-Man-related title.