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  1. #31
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    1. The Writer
    2. Monitor-Mind the Overvoid
    3. The Presence
    4. The Great Evil Beast
    5. Perpetua
    6. Mandrakk
    7. Michael
    8. Lucifer
    9. The Anti-Monitor
    10. The Spectre

    Perpetua seems like she is easily beyond the Spectre's paygrade, but it's still way too early to make a final call about her.
    Wouldn’t Elaine Belloc fit in there somewhere as well?

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    1. The Writer
    2. Monitor-Mind the Overvoid
    3. The Presence
    4. The Great Evil Beast
    5. Perpetua
    6. Mandrakk
    7. Michael
    8. Lucifer
    9. The Anti-Monitor
    10. The Spectre

    Perpetua seems like she is easily beyond the Spectre's paygrade, but it's still way too early to make a final call about her.
    Nah the fact that she can hold a multiverse in her hand pushes her over just fine. The "Overvoid", the blank canvas you set so highly literally went crazy, unable to cope with the concept of a " story". The "writer ", one of the first times the idea of a writer as a supreme Being was used in comics, that specific writer was straight up killed within a comic later. Mandrakk was beaten by GLs and Supermen and sunlight. Lucifer beat Michael the one time they fought to the death

    It's far better to judge characters on actual feats than some arbitrary list found somewhere on the internet, most of such lists have a tendency to be based on personal preference anyway and in any case most of these high end characters are not distinct enough to merit some clear cut ranking from 1-10

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    It should be noted that Lucifer ultimately broke hardcore with mainstream DC continuity, in what miniscule ways it interacted with it anyway, as far as talking about junk like the limitations of the Presence, while we're there. The Presence was the Presence juuuust fine despite stepping down and being replaced with Elaine Belloc in the pages of Lucifer.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Yeah, let's leave the Spear of Destiny out of this, esp since it wouldn't count as anyone's standard gear.

    Interesting about Eclipso and Pre-COIE Dr. Fate being good matchups for the Spectre. Were either of them powered up beyond their usual levels during the fight or was Spectre explicitly de-powered?

    I know both Michael and Lucifer are above the Spectre's paygrade, as is the Presence (and Overvoid the Mind of Monitor would be as well, to say nothing of The Writer).

    The Great Evil Beast ragdolled him. Mandrakk beat him and a similarly powerful being at the same time.

    I think that's it for the list of DC characters that can outright beat the Spectre on their own.

    I figure a full power Spectre could, with difficulty, eventually take down a full power Galactus, one on one.

    Fairly sure both the Pre-retcon Beyonder and the Pre-retcon Molecule Man can dispatch the Spectre easily. And, just to be thorough, The One Above All is even further beyond the Spectre than those two.

    No idea about any of the Marvel Cosmics in between that group and Galactus tho.
    This is a pretty good list. Nekron also banished him.

    Lucifer and Michael are insane power level wise. I believe eclipso was kind of a failed spirit of vengeance, in a specter series he was bitch slapped by the goddess kali as well.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Or he kills out enough reality around them to exploit Jaspers' particular flaw in his powers, then kills him.
    Except the spectre doesn’t work like that. Wasn’t the reason Emperor joker beat him was cause he trapped him in a world n if he escaped he’d kill everyone? I know someone did.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mider2009 View Post
    Except the spectre doesn’t work like that. Wasn’t the reason Emperor joker beat him was cause he trapped him in a world n if he escaped he’d kill everyone? I know someone did.
    That was not Emperor Joker, it was a 5D imp. But here PIS is off so Spectre wouldn't care if they did that.

  7. #37
    All-New Member Kaiser7's Avatar
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    1. God (The Presence, Kirby's The Source, The Overvoid).
    2. Elaine Belloc.
    3. Nekron, The Great Evil, Pralaya, Mother Night.
    4. Mandrakk.
    5. Michael Demiurgos/Lucifer Morningstar.
    6. The Endless.
    7. The Anti-Monitor.
    8. Beings linked to the Shadowland are able to compete with The Spectre due to their nature.

    Note that, as Greg Rucka stated, angels are as powerful as God wants them to be.
    Last edited by Kaiser7; 04-22-2019 at 12:37 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    That was not Emperor Joker, it was a 5D imp. But here PIS is off so Spectre wouldn't care if they did that.
    Thanks, was trying to remember what comic it was.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mider2009 View Post
    Thanks, was trying to remember what comic it was.
    Morrison JLA, Crisis times five

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    That was not Emperor Joker, it was a 5D imp. But here PIS is off so Spectre wouldn't care if they did that.
    While everyone else corrected on when that happened, for my part it was honestly a little weird that Corrigan cared at all, he could be callously brutal as all hell.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Ironically for all those ranking Lucifer and co above the Monitor and AM, the latest take on that has them dwarfing multiverses and being brothers/equals to the guy who churns out multiverses and keeps the thing that eats failed multiverses as a pet

  12. #42
    All-New Member Kaiser7's Avatar
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    In this comic book, only The Judges of The Source are showed to operate on Multiverses scale since they decide whether or not such Multiverse deserve to live. So I don't know where you can find the information that the three brothers are too. Barbatos does not "eat failed multiverses", but "failed [universes]".

    Still below Michael Demiurgos/Lucifer Morningstar : Lucifer Morningstar's mere presence can destroy Creation itself, as he did by destroying the mansions of silence which contains other Creation. Only because they couldn't support his mere presence.
    Last edited by Kaiser7; 04-22-2019 at 12:20 AM.

  13. #43
    All-New Member Kaiser7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    A couple things here: Spectre and Michael have actually fought in Spectre's own book, and Michael conclusively beat him there.

    Spectre also met up with Lucifer Morningstar (on the beach where he was enjoying the sunset) who laughed at the Spectre and then basically told him to eff off, and then The Spectre .... meekly did (remember, this is The Spectre, who does not exactly do diplomacy and resorts to threats as an opening line).

    And DC's The Presence does not equal Marvel's The One Above All, at least not in terms of presentation. The Presence admits in Lucifer's book that he himself was also created by outside forces.

    The Presence would rank below DC's Monitor-Mind The Overvoid (the Infinite Canvas) who in turn ranks below DC's The Writer (The true equivalent to Marvel's The One Above All: both are the will of their respective publishers).

    The Spectre is, at this point, the 9th most powerful DC character ever. At best.
    There is a misunderstanding.

    As stated Lucifer's writer Mike Carey.
    "we make our gods for ourselves, in our own image"
    Humanity did not created a omnipotent entity, but their view of it. The same way as humanity have different views of Dream of The Endless according to their beliefs system.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser7 View Post
    In this comic book, only The Judges of The Source are showed to operate on Multiverses scale since they decide whether or not such Multiverse deserve to live. So I don't know where you can find the information that the three brothers are too. Barbatos does not "eat failed multiverses", but "failed [universes]".
    The Judges otherwise sealed away someone who holds multiverses in her hand as far as scale goes so just to begin with they operate much higher than that

    Fair enough on Barbatos being merely a universe eater though he was operating on a multiversal scale at full power

    Still below Michael Demiurgos/Lucifer Morningstar : Lucifer Morningstar's mere presence can destroy Creation itself, as he did by destroying the mansions of silence which contains other Creation. Only because they couldn't support his mere presence.
    The mansions were specifically noted to be weaker than other dimensions. Lucifer otherwise moves around in normal universes just fine without destroying them with his presence. And since we are splitting hairs on the multiverse/universe thing, his creation is called a multiverse basically just the once and otherwise multiple times called a mere universe and with nothing as clear cut as the multiverses as depicted in the case of Monitors

  15. #45
    All-New Member Kaiser7's Avatar
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    To begin with, your point is fallacious: the three brothers are not as powerful as Perpetua. So I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that they are on the same as scale as The Judges of The Source, which, moreover, helped them get rid of Perpetua. So, no, the three brothers dont operate on a Multiverses scale. Only on a Multiverse scale individually : Monitor : The Orrey ; World Forger : The Dark Multiverse.

    Fine.

    It was mainly explained by Elaine Belloc that the creation adapts to Lucifer. And that's the point : the inability of Creation to adapt to Lucifer would cause its destruction. The point on the cosmology of Lucifer's creation may be contradicted by the fact that the term "Multiverse" was used by the same comic book writer, Mike Carey. Especially since the terms can be interchangeable like the term "cosmos" and "Creation". So I understand your point, but the fact that it is the same author (and not different writers who may have their own view), and who asserts that it is indeed a Multiverse, contradicts this point.
    Last edited by Kaiser7; 04-22-2019 at 10:18 AM.

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