Who can beat the Spectre?

[The Watcher]

Kaiser7, you're both misrepresenting scans and acting in a snide and uncivil manner toward your fellow posters on this thread. Cease posting on it. Also know that you have been warned against behaving the way on other threads the way you are on this one.

[Guy1]

Thread is now reopened.

[Captain Morgan]

So I'd like to talk about the whole universe/multiverse Lucifer thing, but I'll put an asterisk on it because I'm going off memory. So the new creation Lucifer made was probably called a universe more than a multiverse. But as I recall, the people calling it a universe were usually low end entities like small demons who really didn't have much perspective or authority on the matter. Lucifer, and beings in his bracket, usually used vaguer terms for it, calling it a cosmos or creation. The specific instances of calling it a multiverse was in fact Lucifer correcting one of those lower level demons about it.

There's also the fact that when they fly across the entirety of the new creation, they show that it has various subdimensions and such in it as well. So take all that as you will.

[Pendaran]

Like I say, Lucifer shaped the explosion of the demiurgic power from Michael into a multiverse just fine, but he did so largely to be able to say he did, and was inattentive to much of its finer details. That's why you had things like layers of reality full of nothing, or of cancerous growths, and what have you.

[The Dork Knight]

So I'd like to talk about the whole universe/multiverse Lucifer thing, but I'll put an asterisk on it because I'm going off memory. So the new creation Lucifer made was probably called a universe more than a multiverse. But as I recall, the people calling it a universe were usually low end entities like small demons who really didn't have much perspective or authority on the matter. Lucifer, and beings in his bracket, usually used vaguer terms for it, calling it a cosmos or creation. The specific instances of calling it a multiverse was in fact Lucifer correcting one of those lower level demons about it.

There's also the fact that when they fly across the entirety of the new creation, they show that it has various subdimensions and such in it as well. So take all that as you will.

The third person narrative also called it a universe multiple times, for instance when it was being created. Lucifer also calls it a universe, at least once and when they merge their creations to form the new one at the end, it's also called the merging of universes

[The Dork Knight]

Like I say, Lucifer shaped the explosion of the demiurgic power from Michael into a multiverse just fine, but he did so largely to be able to say he did, and was inattentive to much of its finer details. That's why you had things like layers of reality full of nothing, or of cancerous growths, and what have you.

I tend to think of it more akin to the classic post crisis universe- it has stuff like the 5th dimension, phantom Zone, Hell,the Dreaming,Tower of Fate etc and amusingly the Void from Lucifer down to the crooked house (Morrison introduced it in JLA iirc) but it's nonetheless less than a Multiverse with clear cut different versions of characters and such, including say a different 5D or Phantom Zone in Earth 2

[Pendaran]

The third person narrative also called it a universe multiple times, for instance when it was being created. Lucifer also calls it a universe, at least once and when they merge their creations to form the new one at the end, it's also called the merging of universes

All the same, the intent is he made a fully fledged multi layered thing, he just did so badly.

[Pendaran]

I tend to think of it more akin to the classic post crisis universe- it has stuff like the 5th dimension, phantom Zone, Hell,the Dreaming,Tower of Fate etc and amusingly the Void from Lucifer down to the crooked house (Morrison introduced it in JLA iirc) but it's nonetheless less than a Multiverse with clear cut different versions of characters and such, including say a different 5D or Phantom Zone in Earth 2

I would say a lot of that comes down to his fundamental lack of concern for bothering with detailing it out to that point. Honestly, that there's a reference to these things as multiverses, that we see them as bearing out having multiple dimensional layers, etc. It's good enough for me.

[The Arbiter]

Going back a few pages, Pen made a point about there effectively being 2 Michaels? People have argued them as the same guy for so long, I never considered it could be otherwise.

Context is important!

[Pendaran]

Going back a few pages, Pen made a point about there effectively being 2 Michaels? People have argued them as the same guy for so long, I never considered it could be otherwise.

Context is important!

Oh hooray more than one person noticed!

Yes, there are effectively 2 different Michaels, and there has to be. It boils down to the simple fact that Lucifer the series has basically nothing to do with mainline DC continuity in a meaningful sense and you really would have to struggle to say that it does.