Great depictions of DC heroes despite giant flaws

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I was watching some video clips of Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman and it is a stunning performance. It really is one of the great all-time comic book character depictions. Her swagger, maliciousness and mischievousness is absolutely spot-on....but her origin as a meek secretary brought back to life by a bunch of street cats is just &*%ing dumb. However, she is so damn good in virtually every other part of the movie that the stupid origin story doesn't matter in the slightest. That huge misstep is so overshadowed by the awesomeness of everything else that it doesn't ruin it.

Are there any other glaring flaws in certain portrayals of DC characters that are made irrelevant because of how good everything else is? I am not talking about small quibbles here like hair color or a minor detail. I am talking about major elements that somehow don't matter, even though they probably should.

[Ascended]

Batman killing random thugs in the Burton films. Normally, I'm pretty deep with the "Batman is incapable of killing" camp, and it should bother me that Burton's Batman blew up a factory full of people, mowed down criminals with machine guns mounted on his car, and used the Batmobile's exhaust to light one on fire (among other murders, but it's been years and I don't recall the rest). If it were any other version of Batman I'd be screaming to high hell. But Burton's Batman is so damned good I just don't care.

Clark not saving his father from the tornado is terrible on every level for every character involved. But it doesn't dampen at all my love for Man of Steel's Superman, who is, for my money, the best Superman we've seen on film (come at me haters!).

Ollie Queen being a color-blind Batman in the CWverse (at least in the earlier seasons before I stopped watching) bothers me, but the show was interesting enough that I was able to forgive it.

Same goes for certain Wally-isms in the CW Barry Allen. A big chunk of CW Barry is easily viewed as a modern version of the classic Barry, but a few traits are really native to Wally, and Barry's sort of inherited them since his return. It annoys the f**k out of me, and the CW is no exception, but aside from that I think they did a great job adapting Barry for the format and audience.

[Osiris-Rex]

The CW Supergirl being an adult woman with a paying job instead of a teen-age girl in high school. She was called girl for a reason. But I still love the show and it actually seems to work better for CW TV.
Especially for the crossovers. I can't see Barry dragging a kid along or Ollie wanting to work along side one.

[Pohzee]

Hot take: Batfleck in BvS.

Giant flaw: he killed people. Otherwise he nailed it. The same cannot be said for Justice League.

[docmidnite]

Batman killing random thugs in the Burton films. Normally, I'm pretty deep with the "Batman is incapable of killing" camp, and it should bother me that Burton's Batman blew up a factory full of people, mowed down criminals with machine guns mounted on his car, and used the Batmobile's exhaust to light one on fire (among other murders, but it's been years and I don't recall the rest). If it were any other version of Batman I'd be screaming to high hell. But Burton's Batman is so damned good I just don't care

Well, in all fairness the Tim Burton Batman films were based on the depression era version of the character who did kill and use guns.

Ollie Queen being a color-blind Batman in the CWverse (at least in the earlier seasons before I stopped watching) bothers me, but the show was interesting enough that I was able to forgive it.

Well in all fairness, again, the CW version is based off of the Mike Grell version and the Andy Diggle version of the character (which was very much what you describe)

Same goes for certain Wally-isms in the CW Barry Allen. A big chunk of CW Barry is easily viewed as a modern version of the classic Barry, but a few traits are really native to Wally, and Barry's sort of inherited them since his return. It annoys the f**k out of me, and the CW is no exception, but aside from that I think they did a great job adapting Barry for the format and audience.

Like what, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The CW Supergirl being an adult woman with a paying job instead of a teen-age girl in high school. She was called girl for a reason. But I still love the show and it actually seems to work better for CW TV.
Especially for the crossovers. I can't see Barry dragging a kid along or Ollie wanting to work along side one.

You must not be pleased with the vast majority of Supergirl's publishing history then Didn't the original Supergirl graduate from high school in the late 1960s? In the '70 & 80s she was a young woman with paying job, right? Or am I remembering this wrong? Peter David's Linda Danvers was a high school student, definitely, despite Ed Benes cheesecake art. Loeb's Supergirl was explicitly said to be 18 so they could justify their creepy over-sexualizing of her. When Sterling Gates took over and tried to de-creepify her, she was a young woman working as an intern at the Daily Planet. The New 52 and Rebirth Supergirl is definitely a teenager again, although she seems to be acting like a young woman again post-Bendis. So, for large chunks of her history, Supergirl hasn't been a high school student. I can understand having quibbles with the Supergirl TV show, but having her be a young woman with a job seems like an odd thing to take issue with.

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Well, in all fairness the Tim Burton Batman films were based on the depression era version of the character who did kill and use guns.

I am of the same mind. Burton's Batman was inspired by the meaner, less-sanitized version of 1939 before Robin came along and lightened him the &^% up Same goes for Snyder's much maligned version, who was clearly meant to be a burnt out morally-compromised version of the character inspired by Frank Miller's Dark Knight, who absolutely shot that punk with a machine gun. Superman's decision to kill Zod was less of an issue for me than the general tone and lazy writing they decided to take with a character that's supposed to be fun, hopeful and optimistic, but Batman can be played grim n' gritty with no problem from me, as long as they justify it. Burton & Snyder's respective versions of Batman were not the kid-friendly versions that were editorially mandated to not kill criminals any longer.

With Catwoman's origin, though, it is something Burton pulled out of his ass that had no precedent in the comics or other media. It absolutely worked for the film he was making, but it does not strike me as a good Catwoman origin story at all, which makes the fact that this Catwoman is so great and iconic all the more baffling. The Catwoman in Dark Knight Rises clearly stays truer to the classic character, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who prefers Anne Hathaway's Selina to Pfeiffer's

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Clark not saving his father from the tornado is terrible on every level for every character involved. But it doesn't dampen at all my love for Man of Steel's Superman, who is, for my money, the best Superman we've seen on film (come at me haters!).

There's so much I love about Man of Steel, but there's too many gigantic flaws for all that greatness to surpass them. However, I don't think any film has managed to capture Superman's powers or Krypton's majesty as well as Snyder did.

[Osiris-Rex]

With Catwoman's origin, though, it is something Burton pulled out of his ass that had no precedent in the comics or other media. It absolutely worked for the film he was making, but it does not strike me as a good Catwoman origin story at all, which makes the fact that this Catwoman is so great and iconic all the more baffling. The Catwoman in Dark Knight Rises clearly stays truer to the classic character, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who prefers Anne Hathaway's Selina to Pfeiffer's

Pretty much every origin of Catwoman has been wonky. Airline Stewardess with amnesia. Daughter of a pet shop owner. Abused wife. The Batman 1966 and The Dark Knight Rises just skipped an origin altogether and
she just showed up fully formed. Probably the Frank Miller/Mindy Newell work comes closest to a realistic depiction. But I think the Gotham TV show nailed it. Tough street kid learning how to survive.
I think some of the Pfeiffer/Hathaway debate is more a preference for the actors than for how the character is depicted. There was a lot of hate for Hathaway getting the role but I'd be hard pressed to find anyone
objecting to Pfeiffer, other than maybe Sean Young. Plus Pfeiffer played her very over the top, chewing up all the scenery she could. And more of a SJW, feminist icon. While Hathaway was more subtle and low key,
even when she was being a SJW.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Pretty much every origin of Catwoman has been wonky. Airline Stewardess with amnesia. Daughter of a pet shop owner. Abused wife. The Batman 1966 and The Dark Knight Rises just skipped an origin altogether and
she just showed up fully formed. Probably the Frank Miller/Mindy Newell work comes closest to a realistic depiction. But I think the Gotham TV show nailed it. Tough street kid learning how to survive.
I think some of the Pfeiffer/Hathaway debate is more a preference for the actors than for how the character is depicted. There was a lot of hate for Hathaway getting the role but I'd be hard pressed to find anyone
objecting to Pfeiffer, other than maybe Sean Young. Plus Pfeiffer played her very over the top, chewing up all the scenery she could. And more of a SJW, feminist icon. While Hathaway was more subtle and low key,
even when she was being a SJW.

I guess you're right. In the early 90s, her origin perhaps wasn't as defined as it was now. I'd forgotten about the abusive husband origin, so the relationship with Max Shreck played off the abused woman angle that's fallen by the wayside.

[jump]

Pretty much all films version of Batman, my main complaint is they only really go on the surface level of Bats rather making deep cuts into the lore despite most of the takes being fantastic.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Pretty much all films version of Batman, my main complaint is they only really go on the surface level of Bats rather making deep cuts into the lore despite most of the takes being fantastic.

One of these days, we're going to get a great Batman as a detective story...just not yet

[jump]

One of these days, we're going to get a great Batman as a detective story...just not yet

You mean Val figuring out The Riddler's riddles in Forever or Bale using other peoples phones to find the Joker doesn't count as detectiving?!

[j9ac9k]

I think some of the Pfeiffer/Hathaway debate is more a preference for the actors than for how the character is depicted. There was a lot of hate for Hathaway getting the role but I'd be hard pressed to find anyone objecting to Pfeiffer, other than maybe Sean Young. Plus Pfeiffer played her very over the top, chewing up all the scenery she could. And more of a SJW, feminist icon. While Hathaway was more subtle and low key, even when she was being a SJW.

We can debate their relative values as SJW icons - (I almost got into it, but no - there's way too much there....) Anyway.... I loved Pfeiffer's portrayal, but she has the fatal flaw mentioned in this thread - that she's not the comic book Selina Kyle - resurrected by cats?? Supernatural seeker of revenge?? At least Hathaway played a real person who was a career thief. (Her first scene was the best - y'know, when she was being a thief)

Along those lines, Heath Ledger's JOKER had the opposite fatal flaw for me in that he was a guy who wore makeup. It bothered me at first, but ultimately the depiction, portrayal was so great, I could overlook that change in the character. (and I began to appreciate that without falling into the chemicals, his origin was even more of a mystery)

[Ascended]

Well, in all fairness the Tim Burton Batman films were based on the depression era version of the character who did kill and use guns

There was a lot of Golden Age rubbed into Burton's Bat, but I feel like there were enough contemporary elements to make the lethal force a little wonky, in terms of what and who a version of Batman should be. But again, it's not really a complaint; just something I might complain about if the rest of the portrayal wasn't so excellent. I think a Batman should only kill if you're going for that pure pulp sensibility or a broken DKR Bat (like Snyder's version) and Burton was neither broken nor pure pulpy (though he was still very pulpy).

Well in all fairness, again, the CW version is based off of the Mike Grell version and the Andy Diggle version of the character (which was very much what you describe)

Again, the Golden Age elements are definitely plain to see.....but although Ollie spent his first couple decades or so as a Bat clone, I feel his best self came after his shift into knee-jerk liberalism and the survivalist mindset. It's not really an issue (I was won over in the pilot when he's sleeping on the floor with the rain pouring through the window), I just wish they had started him off closer to how we know him today, and with less emphasis on his Golden Age Bat-ness.

Like what, if you don’t mind me asking?

Well, one of the things that always sticks out to me is that Barry is fairly introverted, while Wally is extroverted, and a lot of that Wally-ness rubs off on Barry's modern depictions. Now, when he's in costume that's a different matter, as being the Flash gives Barry an outlet for his quips and sense of humor the same way being Spider-Man is an outlet for the otherwise shy and quiet Peter Parker. But Barry is supposed to be quiet, shy, and nerdy. And not nerdy in a cool, hip way; he's nerdy in a pocket protector and wedgies way. Dude should still be wearing bowties, you know? The CW version of Barry is far too "so uncool he's totally cool" to really feel like Barry should, in my opinion. The movie version was too extroverted for my tastes too, though he definitely was awkward enough to feel like I think Barry should.