The differences between Thanos and Darkseid explained

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

It's a few years old, but i think it's a Worth read for Marvel Cosmic fans and Thanos fans, or for people who wants to know the character better after watching Infinity War, or for those who wondered what makes Darkseid and Thanos different characters.


http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogsp...e-mistake.html

Really well written, professional quality article. I agree with his thoughts on Thanos, especially the differences between the character and DC's Darkseid(anyone who labels Thanos as a Darkseid wannabe has next to zero familiarity with the character and Jim Starlin's stories).

However, i think theres some flaw on what he thinks how Cosmic comics should be:

“That’s what cosmic is all about. Cosmic isn’t about telling crime stories or action stories or thrillers in an exotic setting. Cosmic is about heightened reality, a form of storytelling defined by the absence of familiar referents, riven with symbolism, and steeped in fanciful mythology.”

I respectfully disagree. Things like Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5 and Warhammer 40,000 shows that cosmic stories can be done with the tropes of action-packed pulp adventure stories, dramatic war stories and political intrigue stories tweaked with a outer space setting.

Heck, Silver Surfer stories can be compared to tv shows of the ''walking the earth''(see TVTropes) genre like ''Kung Fu'', ''Fist of the Northstar'', ''The Pretender'' and, uh, ''Xavier Renegade Angel''.

Even many of Kirby comics were this same grade of re-hash. Sure they’re steeped in altered reality, epic fantasy and over-the top visuals, but they are firmly based on a kid-friendly smattering of older tales, mundane tales of other media, or like the author of the article himself said; mythology. Frankly, we have modern mythology, and the Silmarillion with Lord of the Rings, Conan the Barbarian, or Seven Samurai are just as much a part of that as Camelot, the illiad and the Odissey.

Unfortunately, nearly all of the stuff we see in comics is unoriginal and borrowed from somewhere. Everything has an eye test. Doing a version of Game of Thrones or Saving Private Ryan in space works if its done right. To me, I call it cosmic more on a subjective feel. Honestly, just being bizarre and ''Castaneda-esque'' or ''Kirby-esque'' is almost an acceptable descriptive adjective on its own that needs little dissection. (or vivisection in Thanos case LOL) For the most part, Cosmic is about space and adventure.

However, the core message of the article, that Thanos is supposed to be more epic and mystical than being ''Jeffrey Dahmer in space'' is spot on. Thanos deserves better and the author really understands what makes the character tick.

I had similar issues when i read Thanos Rising. Marvel editors wants this simplistic re-invention of characters that only manage to fail to grasp the classic stories and the authors.

I see it all the time with things like Star-Lord being written as ''Han Solo meets X'' or Adam Warlock being ''Jesus Christ meets X''. They want everything simple. Thanos has only gotten worse until this point. Even since Aaron wrote him he’s been even more the generic “mustache twirling villain in the black hat” in comics, cartoons and videogames, more than even those ''My Friend Dahmer'' tropes. I’ll be honest, Donny Cates's run on Thanos had an interesting premise, but it quickly became a mediocre read, with Thanos acting more like a thuggish cosmic potentate like Mongul or Blastaar than Starlin's Thanos, and the only thing the series accomplished was getting rid of Thane (i know, spoilers).

[JackDaw]

I thought one telling part of the article, was that it was possible to accept Thanos retiring happily to farm at end of original Infinity Gauntlet) as a possible and satisfying end for the character.

Darkseid could never be written that way. (I suppose I shouldn't use "never".... in reference to what a comics writer might do.....)

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Yes, Thanos is supposed more morally ambiguos and sympatethic than Darkseid, who's little more than a Hitler metaphor.

[JKtheMac]

For me the article’s definition and your definition are discussing entirely different things. You seem focused on stories with a cosmic backdrop or setting, the article is talking about a specific type of story. For example Star Wars just isn’t a comic story by that definition and I myself would never classify it as Cosmic.

[Carabas]

Darkseid is a fascist who wants to remake the universe in his own image because he believes that is the best thing to do (except when Starlin writes him, then he's just a mad and crazy goofball who loves chaos).

Thanos is a nihilist who wants to selfishly kill everybody so he can be with Death.

They're both about as bad as you can get.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Darkseid is a fascist who wants to remake the universe in his own image because he believes that is the best thing to do (except when Starlin writes him, then he's just a mad and crazy goofball who loves chaos).

Thanos is a nihilist who wants to selfishly kill everybody so he can be with Death.

They're both about as bad as you can get.

Except that by the end of Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos was no longer a nihilist villain as he learned that he is his own worst enemy and that genocide and macguffins won't convince Mistress Death to love him and he became a reclusive farmer and explorer who would occasionally help Adam Warlock and other heroes save the universe from a common threat, as seen in Infinity War, Crusade, Blood & Thunder, Cosmic Powers, Infinity Abyss and The End.

Darkseid would never do that.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

For me the article’s definition and your definition are discussing entirely different things. You seem focused on stories with a cosmic backdrop or setting, the article is talking about a specific type of story. For example Star Wars just isn’t a comic story by that definition and I myself would never classify it as Cosmic.

My point was that a space opera story doesn't necessarilly need trippy metaphysical themes to be good. In the marvel universe, you Can have both gritty military science fiction stories like DnA stuff and trippy spiritual stories like Starlin's stuff.

[JKtheMac]

My point was that a space opera story doesn't necessarilly need trippy metaphysical themes to be good. In the marvel universe, you Can have both gritty military science fiction stories like DnA stuff and trippy spiritual stories like Starlin's stuff.

Absolutely but to qualify as a cosmic story by the definition of the article it needs to be a lot more than just a story set in space with characters also seen in cosmic stories. Books like the recent Ultimates volumes would qualify, whereas recent Silver Surfer wouldn’t.

Note, I have no problem with differing definitions, but disagreeing with somebody’s idea of what makes a good cosmic story without first coming to an agreement on what should be included as a cosmic story would seem counterproductive. The article wouldn’t include the kinds of stories you are citing and therefore it isn’t passing judgment upon them as bad stories or bad examples, or comparing them in any way with its own definition.

[GrandEleven]

For me the article’s definition and your definition are discussing entirely different things. You seem focused on stories with a cosmic backdrop or setting, the article is talking about a specific type of story. For example Star Wars just isn’t a comic story by that definition and I myself would never classify it as Cosmic.

Bingo.

Just because a story happens in space, doesn't make it cosmic. IMO Those are just Sci-Fi. I think the original definition is spot on. To take it a step further, it's always annoyed me when entities like The Living Tribunal can even have a fight in the traditional sense. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the characters purpose. They are mythological beings, and should be approached more like Cthulhu than anything with more mortal ties.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Uh, yeah, I don't really agree with this guy. I'd say that anyone who says that Darkseid isn't much of a character probably doesn't have a really good grasp on Darkseid as a character. People who actually, you know, read up on Darkseid's backstory and the intricacies of his character know he's quite a three-dimensional villain. There's a reason why Marvel and Roy Thomas wanted to make their own version of him. He's more than just a Hitler metaphor. His backstory (and that of the New Gods in general) is basically a cosmic version of Game of Thrones..before there was a Game of Thrones.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Bingo.

Just because a story happens in space, doesn't make it cosmic. IMO Those are just Sci-Fi. I think the original definition is spot on. To take it a step further, it's always annoyed me when entities like The Living Tribunal can even have a fight in the traditional sense. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the characters purpose. They are mythological beings, and should be approached more like Cthulhu than anything with more mortal ties.

Does that mean Dan Abnett's stories (Annihilation and sequels) are not really cosmic? That doesn't make them bad stories though.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

For me the article’s definition and your definition are discussing entirely different things. You seem focused on stories with a cosmic backdrop or setting, the article is talking about a specific type of story. For example Star Wars just isn’t a comic story by that definition and I myself would never classify it as Cosmic.

I think Tegan O'Neil with Cosmic wasn't referring to space opera stories but to a particular type of surreal (or trippy) stories where the main character interacts with abstract and metaphorical entities while contemplating spiritual and mystical themes.
Basically the type of storytelling that Is parodied by Xavier Renegade Angel.

This means that Grant Morrison's Animal Man and Doom Patrol runs are cosmic. Neil Gaiman's Sandman is cosmic. Doctor Strange Is cosmic.

On the other hand Star Wars becomes truly cosmic only when the Force comes into play.



Docto