Superman: #1 cosmic pugilist

[Kuwagaton]

So "Up in the Sky" is about to start, and so far just a bit of what we know is that it contains a big boxing match. I love the man of science, Doc Savage thing. But as great as it is seeing Superman using his gifts in tandem and allowing the leverage fate gives him to ride out the toughest storms, Superman is the action ace. A big part of the appeal to me getting into the character was that he has, beyond dispute, regulated the largest number of foes in fiction. He's booger flicked out thugs and saboteurs, went toe to toe with Ali, and his idea of a draw is a double homicide. King of the schoolyard for some decades now, how has that played into your enjoyment of the stories?

[HeroVladimir93]

While Superman's enormous strength and combat experience are nothing to sneeze at, we should all remember that he is not a warrior by nature and chooses to focus on protection instead of combat. He is the son of scientists and farmers and always looks for creative solutions to problems instead of just punching them. In the World of New Krypton series, he quickly defeated a Kryptonian soldier through superior experience with superpowers and in Ending Battle, he survived multiple confrontations with his entire rogues gallery, except Darkseid and Doomsday. In Injustice Gods Among Us, he defeated some of the Injustice universe's nastiest heavyweights, such as Black Adam, Doomsday and even his own evil twin. That's why I want the noble and heroic Superman to be a playable character in Injustice 3.

[Kuwagaton]

While Superman's enormous strength and combat experience are nothing to sneeze at, we should all remember that he is not a warrior by nature and chooses to focus on protection instead of combat. He is the son of scientists and farmers and always looks for creative solutions to problems instead of just punching them.

Absolutely true, but what I would consider not the whole truth:



I don't meant to approach his ability or frequency of physical confrontation and (cynically?) compare it to other elements of stories, but to appreciate it for what it is. It's a founding piece of the genre and medium. For all we understand about his character and how he'd rather not beat people up, we can be assured most of the time that it's quite deserved and really, it's a cathartic piece of excitement and wish fulfillment. It's something we can expect him to do, and he's the best as what he does.

[HeroVladimir93]

Absolutely true, but what I would consider not the whole truth:



I don't meant to approach his ability or frequency of physical confrontation and (cynically?) compare it to other elements of stories, but to appreciate it for what it is. It's a founding piece of the genre and medium. For all we understand about his character and how he'd rather not beat people up, we can be assured most of the time that it's quite deserved and really, it's a cathartic piece of excitement and wish fulfillment. It's something we can expect him to do, and he's the best as what he does.

Of course. Since most of Superman's adventures take place from his perspective, we can understand how he feels about his adventures and the enemies he comes up against. Superman doesn't go looking for trouble, but doesn't fly away when trouble finds him. He is really a perfect example of escapism and fantastic storytelling.

[magha_regulus]

Absolutely true, but what I would consider not the whole truth:



I don't meant to approach his ability or frequency of physical confrontation and (cynically?) compare it to other elements of stories, but to appreciate it for what it is. It's a founding piece of the genre and medium. For all we understand about his character and how he'd rather not beat people up, we can be assured most of the time that it's quite deserved and really, it's a cathartic piece of excitement and wish fulfillment. It's something we can expect him to do, and he's the best as what he does.

THIS!!!

Yeah I see Superman as a super intelligent bruiser. I think he'd actually like the physicality of a rough and tumble brawl. If someone could hit him and actually make him feel it he'd smile a bit knowing that its on and he could let loose. This is a guy who likes getting into arm wrestling matches with Samson, Hercules and Atlas. He's a guy who'd join a superhero toughman challenge for charity and sport. I don't see him as someone who'd be a pretty boy fighter full of graceful attacks. No he just gets in there and gets the job done. Superman's fights should get ugly. I see him definitely getting a sense of quiet satisfaction from putting bullies of all stripes in their place. Superman enjoys ACTION.

[magha_regulus]

I definitely want them to bring back more stories of the menace of the Superbaby lol

[HeroVladimir93]

THIS!!!

Yeah I see Superman as a super intelligent bruiser. I think he'd actually like the physicality of a rough and tumble brawl. If someone could hit him and actually make him feel it he'd smile a bit knowing that its on and he could let loose. This is a guy who likes getting into arm wrestling matches with Samson, Hercules and Atlas. He's a guy who'd join a superhero toughman challenge for charity and sport. I don't see him as someone who'd be a pretty boy fighter full of graceful attacks. No he just gets in there and gets the job done. Superman's fights should get ugly. I see him definitely getting a sense of quiet satisfaction from putting bullies of all stripes in their place. Superman enjoys ACTION.

In my opinion, Superman works best as a methodical fighter, using his intelligence and cunning to defeat enemies that match him in strength. In Man of Steel, he consciously avoids punching General Zod through buildings and does his best to take him out of the city, but he is not an expert fighter and Zod is not an easy opponent to begin with. In The Death of Superman, he liberally uses his superspeed and improvised weapons to incapacitate Doomsday. I think Superman only fights with his full power when there is no risk of collateral damage and knows his enemies are tough enough to take it. He might not be a warrior by nature, but I think he would allow himself the enjoyment of a fight, at least when the stakes are low and knows he can protect innocent bystanders.

[Kuwagaton]

Yeah, as fast paced as it was, it really seemed to me like they tried here and there to show the buildings and space as empty during the 2013 movie. That was initially the one thing that bugged me with Last Son, that when the story starts out he's knocking Bizarro all about Metropolis. It wasn't a rookie Superman or his brightest enemy, so I feel like that should have been different.

I think his enjoyment of the action, and Siegel was all about him having a laugh at his own super feats, is like the flipside of how much he has to use strategy. If the situation really calls for it, or actually calls for little effort instead, I think it can be fun. If most versions of his story, if he wasn't given the basic gist of boxing to supplement with being clever and adamant, then he at least played at being a boxer.



When he saw a giant, golden Midas rampaging in Metropolis, he tries to use heat vision and immediately realize that force isn't the case. Pretty serious minded. But then he gets into a fight with a pantheon, and after discovering the trick to beat them, seems pretty relaxed. In a lot of old stories from Action, the pantheon type gods he fights often turned out to just be something else. But he was still pretty reputed in historical power, shoulder to should at worst.



He was pretty confident against the pocket universe Kryptonians although he was well outgunned. As with his fight against Superboy, he realizes that a fight isn't a great idea and scrambles for other options. I think it's really a thing for him to use his might to probe and see how well he fares. It's pretty rare that a fight ends the way it started.

And this is just plain fun.

[The World]

Has anybody seen that scan floating around where Superman and Wonder Woman are talking and the writer has Superman bend over backwards to make sure he doesn't get labeled as a warrior or something? It was a modern story, probably post 2000's.

It's hilarious to me because there's such a hard push to make the character a "farmer in a cape" but the guy specifically moved out of the rural parts of America so he could go where he felt the actions was. He picked his day to day profession because he thought it would allow him to mix it up with villains easier. You'd be hard press to find a volume of the guys existence where he isn't fighting someone the majority of the read through. You can find the guy fighting in classic greek/roman style military wear but the amount of time you find the guy farming ANYTHING is pretty nil.

Frankly I'm not even big on Superman on being considered a warrior because I don't think anyone goes through life being just one thing, but on the other hand I just don't see how anyone can say farming plays a bigger part in the guys life than combat. The guy is a pugilist through and through.

[Kuwagaton]

Well, I've compared Clark before to a "cosmic Jack Dempsey," and Dempsey grew up on a farm. So did Joe Frazier. Good stuff if we're assuming that he didn't have his entire power set growing up, and aside from that it makes for plenty of opportunities to box with Pa if we're also going by an origin where he wasn't a ward of the state or something.

Warrior gets tricky if we're comparing him to Wonder Woman. I don't know about the scan you mentioned (if it wasn't related to IC my best guess is some bit of Trinity I never caught) but I can definitely admit she's a different sort. Her approach makes it so that it's an issue just how much Superman is willing to hold back if they fight, because almost every time there's some head games going on and his full might is his chance of winning. I think the Superman vs Wonder Woman special , Justice League on-screen, and the For Tomorrow fight are the best examples. The latter being my favorite even if the story is a little weird.

[The World]

I mean I get why Wonder Woman would be seen as a warrior over Superman with her coming from a kind of crystallized Greco-Roman woman warrior culture but the scan seem to be implying Batman had earned the nod more than Superman.

Must be a tough club if you can fight evil from adolescence long before Batman ever really considered it and still not be considered in the running.

[HeroVladimir93]

Something I've been thinking about when it comes to Superman's fighting ability is that when he fights enemies that can match him strength (General Zod, Darkseid, Doomsday), he beats them not because he is the better fighter, but because he is more determined to win. The stakes are too high that he cannot allow himself to lose, so he pushes himself past the pain and is able to win against enemies that logically should outclass him in terms of fighting skill. Am I making sense here?

[Kuwagaton]

Yeah, it's how I even feel about Wonder Woman. Being a warrior is part of her culture so I'd say in that way she stands above Superman and Batman equally. Mongul, Zod, and Darkseid are kind of similar, so is Thor (yes I know, different company and not canon) but we've seen Superman with at least a chance to win against that sort. It's kind of the power of confidence.

The funny thing about Doomsday, on the other hand, is that other characters fight him and when it goes south they wonder how even Superman beat him.