Fantastic Four #2 SPOILERS

[The BaRoN]

Damn its great to be taking about the latest FF issues again

[Killerbee911]

And as I’ve often said..for my personal taste I’d like to see Franklin powered down. I don’t particularly want to read another FF run about moral dilemmas at a cosmic level..Hickman did that really well, but happy for next run to have a different tone.

Well they took away his creation of universe stuff in this book and said he is "still more powerful than Thor,Silver Surfer,Hulk" which is clearly putting him into a bracket. It feels like they are clearly powering him down

[Username taken]

To the extent that this is a true moral dilemma, doesn't it apply to restoring the old universes as well? After all, in the old or restored 616, everything sure isn't peaches and cream what with all the varied supervillains and the near world-ending events, many of them with severe casualties even when averted, that seem to crop up every other week. If they weren't capable of restoring it with some improvements like, say, removing, oh, Thanos and Roxxon and Malekith and a few other of the more prominent evils out there, was it really right to restore it at all? And conversely, if it was correct to restore the old universe, warts and all, then how would it be wrong to generate completely new universes even if they were similarly flawed?

Good point. Restoring the multiverse and creating new universes still creates the same problems.

That being said, we don't know if the universes created didn't contain universe threatening madmen like a Thanos but they sure as heck didn't contain beings that could protect them seeing as they were completely destroyed by Griever without much resistance. The 616 universe (and most of the Marvel multiverse) has been seeded with all sorts of mechanisms to allow residents in them defend themselves against all sorts of dangers.

In an existence as potentially perilous as the Marvel multiverse (which the Fantastic Four are very aware of), creating universes and not seeding them with some form of defense mechanism (like a Starbrand or some other cosmics) does reek of hubris and it goes back to the original point of why create imperfect universes at all? Obviously, this is probably as a result of the Richards and Owen not being omnipotent and omniscient and that then comes back to the point of why take on that responsibility at all when they just might not be entirely up to it?

[Username taken]

Well they took away his creation of universe stuff in this book and said he is "still more powerful than Thor,Silver Surfer,Hulk" which is clearly putting him into a bracket. It feels like they are clearly powering him down

I honestly hope so because Franklin has been powered down a number of times only for another writer to power him back up...and go beyond what he was originally.

[JackDaw]

Well they took away his creation of universe stuff in this book and said he is "still more powerful than Thor,Silver Surfer,Hulk" which is clearly putting him into a bracket. It feels like they are clearly powering him down

Part of the way there, then.

Interesting “bracket” by the way. As I wonder into town to get my car insurance, I’ll be wondering what other characters fit into niche between Thor, Silver Surfer, Hulk and the outright cosmic powerhouses. Galactus? Watcher? Or just a notch down?

[Username taken]

Part of the way there, then.

Interesting “bracket” by the way. As I wonder into town to get my car insurance, I’ll be wondering what other characters fit into niche between Thor, Silver Surfer, Hulk and the outright cosmic powerhouses. Galactic? Watcher? Or just a notch down?

I guess one could squeeze in Thanos somewhere there.

I actually can't think of anyone else in that frame.

[JackDaw]

I guess one could squeeze in Thanos somewhere there.

I actually can't think of anyone else in that frame.

I’m struggling at moment to think of examples.

But..pure guess..maybe some of the X-Men powerhouses, especially some of the villains, might fit in. I know next to nothing about X-men.

It’s sort of question that I suspect Digifiend could give a near definitive answer on.

[kilderkin]

Well they took away his creation of universe stuff in this book and said he is "still more powerful than Thor,Silver Surfer,Hulk" which is clearly putting him into a bracket. It feels like they are clearly powering him down

Yeah

He's still a kid, though older, so I guess he's still not at full potential like the future version that fought celestials

still even as a kid he created a pocket universe in heroes reborn

It's all related to the story being told I guess, a galactus level being on a team sort of renders the rest inert

Incidentally I note that when reed summons his family, Alicia isn't there

maybe he only meant those who are active hero types?

[Crimz]

Yeah

He's still a kid, though older, so I guess he's still not at full potential like the future version that fought celestials

still even as a kid he created a pocket universe in heroes reborn

It's all related to the story being told I guess, a galactus level being on a team sort of renders the rest inert

Incidentally I note that when reed summons his family, Alicia isn't there

maybe he only meant those who are active hero types?

Yeah Franklin needs to be powered down while the members of the Fantastic Four need to be powered up.

[kilderkin]

Yeah Franklin needs to be powered down while the members of the Fantastic Four need to be powered up.

Im always happy with franklin being potentially uber powerful but not being there fully yet

And I totally agree about the others, sues very powerful but the other 3 need a real upgrade imo, and I would be happy to see sue get a bump to keep her scaled up too

Ben is seriously short in the strength game these days compared to other bricks in marvel

hasn't been for years imo

[JackDaw]

Im always happy with franklin being potentially uber powerful but not being there fully yet

And I totally agree about the others, sues very powerful but the other 3 need a real upgrade imo, and I would be happy to see sue get a bump to keep her scaled up too

Ben is seriously short in the strength game these days compared to other bricks in marvel

hasn't been for years imo

Crimz has been pulling my leg on another thread by posting an image of the Hulk seeing Ben off in two panels.

Seriously it’s got to point where it’s just as obvious that Ben needs powering up, as it was decades ago that Sue did.

And as I’ve said a couple of times, I quite like Crimz’s idea of powering Ben up by making him very, very fast and durable rather than any stronger. That are other possibilities, of course, but basically something really ought to be done.

[kilderkin]

Crimz has been pulling my leg on another thread by posting an image of the Hulk seeing Ben off in two panels.

Seriously it’s got to point where it’s just as obvious that Ben needs powering up, as it was decades ago that Sue did.

And as I’ve said a couple of times, I quite like Crimz’s idea of powering Ben up by making him very, very fast and durable rather than any stronger. That are other possibilities, of course, but basically something really ought to be done.

He's like a mini juggernaut at present for me

some addition to his powerset would be welcome

[kilderkin]

I’m struggling at moment to think of examples.

But..pure guess..maybe some of the X-Men powerhouses, especially some of the villains, might fit in. I know next to nothing about X-men.

It’s sort of question that I suspect Digifiend could give a near definitive answer on.

Strikes me he's around skyfather level then

[mrbrklyn]

Nice. Reed reminds me of Peter O'Toole (from Under Milkwood)

That was the panel that actually made me put the book down. I can't see how it is possible for Reed and Sue to have disappeared from the team for so long and to been complacent and not driven to reconnect with Johnny and Ben. It is completely out of character with the Fantastic Four and make it virtually unreadable.

[mrbrklyn]

Some quick thoughts. This issue was an improvement over the first so now I am a bit more hopeful about Slott on this title. I still have my misgivings about him especially if he regresses Doom.

With the children being so much older looking I was wondering who the brown-haired guy was that looked as big as Alex Powers and then I realized it was Bentley. IMO Slott dropped the ball there. He and Val were like co-conspirators/buddies. What happened? Now she's flirting with the Namor wannabe.

I liked seeing Sharon there among the extended family but shouldn't she still be in prison?

With all the powers among that group I can't believe that they couldn't find a way to communicate with Ben and Johnny. At least Doom was given an excuse for thinking they were dead and gone. Reed manipulated his memories as we saw in the MTIO annual.

It wasn't like it was a case of national security or that their whereabouts had to be kept secret. I just feel that facet was unnecessary. I suppose it could cause a panic if some realized that the entire reality as they knew it had been destroyed. IMO after a while, people would think it was a hoax. I don't think that many are aware that Thanos once caused destruction on a universal scale either.

That is where it really drops off and it is not well set up for a Fantastic Four story. It is now just wandering around.

First, you are correct. These characters are talking, thinking and speaking in a way that is completely inconsistent with everything we know about them. There is no way that Reed and Sue would leave Johnny and Ben in the lurch like that and then just have this KumBayyah existence playing hopscotch with Franklin through multiple universes, all the while enjoying the campfire in euphoric glow of their children's antics as if they are all tripping on pitocin ... it makes no emotion senses and it completely fails as a narrative.

The natural outcome for the Richards family of Franklin creating universes should be horror, and it has been previously. It is too much power and responsibility, which instead is being played off as if the Richards Family is taking a romp through Candy Land, rather than the bizarre and and twisted thing it is, which would have been resisted by Reed and Susan, not encouraged. And trivializing it by creating Universes ad nauseum, one with more chocolate, one with more oceans, one with more caves, is just so far removed from any FF characterization, and is frankly just stupid. It makes you groan with its stupidity.

You create a universe and it is not large enough and diverse enough for you to find something interesting in? That is worst than the ice planets and desert planets in Star Wars. Really, an entire world of ice and an entire world with desert? Maybe someone needs to explain what a Universe is to the author? Or what a galaxy is? or even solar system?

Then since they have this rather insane story with the Richards family hop scotching though the land of chocolate universes, blissfully happy with specialty hot cocoa mixes, then they need to create this new villain that just pops into the story without explanation or background. I am the goddess of entropy! and the killer of all things and I am here to destroy all of Young Franklin's wonderful cocoa universes!

Maybe Neil Gaiman is around to explain how a death character can be interesting and believable?
....oh ... how ... thrilling...

Why does Franklin's powers not work anymore? He wore them out! Of course!

So now Reed can reach across the multiverse and summons all the characters that ever were associated with the FF, instantaneously together.
And they are all just so HAPPY to be there! Especially Logan. This is the moment that makes his whole existence now truly meaningful.. It is hard to believe that this is even a Marvel book. This is Marvel. They all but created the feisty, quarreling, independent super-hero. This is nothing like a Marvel book.


And this is the second false climax that this author has created in two issues. There is no suspense. The writer seems to be incapable of writing a suspenseful book. This whole storyline feels like a dream. That would be the best plot twist to save this book. Have this all part of Franklin Richards dream as he is kidnapped by Doctor Doom. It might be the only way to save this book. Franklin can be conjuring up an entire new FF Universe of universes in his dreams which eventually crosses over to his reality to defeat Doctor Doom and re-establishes the Fantastic Four in Marvel Comics and ends up reducing Franklins powers to something more manageable.

That can work...

Otherwise, expect the sales to tank and the damage to the FF franchise to be permanent.

This is the worst FF effort yet put together.