Fantastic Four #2 SPOILERS

[BAS]

Franklin is the problem that just won't go away. Way back when, Marvel writers deemed him an all powerful, cosmic entity that could reshape worlds and reality on a whim.

Slott HAS to do something that limits his abilities, else he overshadows every threat the FF faces. Why actually fight when Franklin can just 'wish it away'? At least he started something by having Franklin just lose the ability to create universes as some sort of burnout of that power - with no outside cause. There has to at least be some cost to his use of his powers.

[Triniking1234]

People are acting as if Franklin Richards has been carrying the FF and/or abusing his powers since he was born in 1968. His power levels go up and down with the story. Remember Abraxas.

[JKtheMac]

People are acting as if Franklin Richards has been carrying the FF and/or abusing his powers since he was born in 1968. His power levels go up and down with the story. Remember Abraxas.

I know its weird. Anyone would think he was responsible for major problems with the book over the decades. He just hasn't. When he needed to be powered up he was. When he needed to be put back in the box he was.

He is clearly not being put back in the box here and that is a positive step. Finally they will be telling stories that include a powered Franklin. My bet is the major limitations to his powers will be based upon his age and the different slant a teenager has, much like Val was used in this issue.

I believe RPGs majorly messed up comic book readers heads. Lots of the fan base think in terms of power levels and not character. Stories are not written like D&D.

[JKtheMac]

Slott HAS to do something that limits his abilities.

He already did this! Did you read the book?

[JKtheMac]

I haven't read Slott's Silver Surfer run but at least he already has experience writing cosmic stories and even creating new abstract characters like the Queen of Nevers.

It seems to divide critics and readers. If you like the idea of a writer doing a modern Dr Who tribute with a Marvel character then like me you will love it. If that sounds horrid, avoid it.

[JackDaw]

I know its weird. Anyone would think he was responsible for major problems with the book over the decades. He just hasn't. When he needed to be powered up he was. When he needed to be put back in the box he was.

He is clearly not being put back in the box here and that is a positive step. Finally they will be telling stories that include a powered Franklin. My bet is the major limitations to his powers will be based upon his age and the different slant a teenager has, much like Val was used in this issue.

I believe RPGs majorly messed up comic book readers heads. Lots of the fan base think in terms of power levels and not character. Stories are not written like D&D.

Can't remember exact thread but we had a poll here fairly recently asking for fans preferences for how they they wanted characters power levels to be "regarded" in stories. One extreme was effectively to publish a source book giving power set and limit of each character and stick to it. The other extreme was to just show any character doing anything "story needed".

A few fans voted for the two extremes. But a large majority voted for something in the middle...use the power set fairly sensibly, without regarding it as religious writ. To put flesh on that..if Captain America needs to be a bit faster and stronger than peak human for a particular story, so be it...but don't show him in a hand to hand brawl with the Thing and surviving the experience.

Not pretending it was a massive poll...but to be honest I'd be surprised if that wasn't reasonably representative of how large majority of fans feel.

As applied to present FF set-up...it would just mean something like "if you run with a high powered Franklin, for pity's sake don't show any but a handful of characters going toe to toe against him".

[JKtheMac]

Can't remember exact thread but we had a poll here fairly recently asking for fans preferences for how they they wanted characters power levels to be "regarded" in stories. One extreme was effectively to publish a source book giving power set and limit of each character and stick to it. The other extreme was to just show any character doing anything "story needed".

A few fans voted for the two extremes. But a large majority voted for something in the middle...use the power set set fairly sensibly, without regarding it as religious writ. To put flesh on that..if Captain America needs to be a bit faster and stronger than peak human for a particular story, so be it...but don't show him if a hand to hand brawl with the Thing and surviving the experience.

Not pretending it was a massive poll...but to be honest I'd be surprised if that wasn't reasonably representative of how large majority of fans feel.

As applied to present FF set-up...it would just mean something like "if you run with a high powered Franklin, for pity's sake don't show any but a handful of characters going toe to toe against him".

The problem with the way you have represented the issue there is by making those two stances opposite poles. They are not. One is not how stories work, one is how some people don't like stories to be written. They are not related concepts.

It's like one pole is madness and the other is a reactionary nightmare.

[BAS]

He already did this! Did you read the book?

Um... yeah, and I said so too:

Slott HAS to do something that limits his abilities, else he overshadows every threat the FF faces. Why actually fight when Franklin can just 'wish it away'? At least he started something by having Franklin just lose the ability to create universes as some sort of burnout of that power - with no outside cause. There has to at least be some cost to his use of his powers.

[BAS]

People are acting as if Franklin Richards has been carrying the FF and/or abusing his powers since he was born in 1968. His power levels go up and down with the story. Remember Abraxas.

I know its weird. Anyone would think he was responsible for major problems with the book over the decades. He just hasn't. When he needed to be powered up he was. When he needed to be put back in the box he was.

He is clearly not being put back in the box here and that is a positive step. Finally they will be telling stories that include a powered Franklin. My bet is the major limitations to his powers will be based upon his age and the different slant a teenager has, much like Val was used in this issue.

I believe RPGs majorly messed up comic book readers heads. Lots of the fan base think in terms of power levels and not character. Stories are not written like D&D.

Making Franklin an active member of the team changes his role. If he is included in the FF exploits, and not just a tertiary character, it's inevitable that he'd be in the middle of a conflict where his presence alone is enough to turn the tide in the FF's favor. I'm just saying Slott has to put together stories that DON'T allow for the "Franklin can just reset everything" solution.

And yeah, previous writers have taken Franklin out of the box, then put him back in numerous times. Again - being able to reset reality is just something that can't be failsafe for every FF adventure going forward.

[JackDaw]

The problem with the way you have represented the issue there is by making those two stances opposite poles. They are not. One is not how stories work, one is how some people don't like stories to be written. They are not related concepts.

It's like one pole is madness and the other is a reactionary nightmare.

I was just recounting results of a small poll...and saying my guess is that it was a fair representative of most fans preferences...that most fans prefer stories showing feats roughly in line with character power sets.

You have lost me completely in how that can be "madness" or a reactionary nightmare.

[JKtheMac]

Making Franklin an active member of the team changes his role. If he is included in the FF exploits, and not just a tertiary character, it's inevitable that he'd be in the middle of a conflict where his presence alone is enough to turn the tide in the FF's favor. I'm just saying Slott has to put together stories that DON'T allow for the "Franklin can just reset everything" solution.

And yeah, previous writers have taken Franklin out of the box, then put him back in numerous times. Again - being able to reset reality is just something that can't be failsafe for every FF adventure going forward.

What are you actually saying here? A character that is powerful may have to use his power at some point? All team books are like that. No difference. Thor on the Avengers is a case in point. This version of Franklin hasn't even had his powers defined yet and we havn't seen how his character will work. Character is the key to any conflict. We don't read books that line up people by power and then set them against each other like top trumps.

Take the Hulk. When you put him on a team book then you focus the conflict upon his character. The way he was used in all of his MCU team appearances has focused on character.

Why dont we just trust the writer to write the character in an interesting way? He has an excellent track record.

[JKtheMac]

I was just recounting results of a small poll...and saying my guess is that it was a fair representative of most fans preferences...that most fans prefer stories showing feats roughly in line with character power sets.

You have lost me completely in how that can be "madness" or a reactionary nightmare.

It is fanciful in the extreme that anyone would write a story based entirely upon power sets. That wouldn't be a story.

It is reactionary to see the opposite of this as being "That means anything goes! The writer will just have him doing anything needed to have him win!" That isn't the opposite that's just a fear. The two issues are not connected.

I am sure most people want feats roughly in line with power sets, after all that is what a power set is. That is a truism. It is not even a preference, it's just how stories work.

Where comics are concerned the real issue is how sensitive to previous continuity everyone is. Some seem to want the writer to explain everything just to satisfy why they can't repeat that exceptional feat they did in a one-shot once. Some are not too bothered as long as things feel right. That's where the dichotomy really lies. Stories are not maths.

[JackDaw]

It is fanciful in the extreme that anyone would write a story based entirely upon power sets. That wouldn't be a story.

It is reactionary to see the opposite of this as being "That means anything goes! The writer will just have him doing anything needed to have him win!" That isn't the opposite that's just a fear. The two issues are not connected.

I am sure most people want feats roughly in line with power sets, after all that is what a power set is. That is a truism. Its not even a preference, it's just how stories work.

Where comics are concerned the real issue is how sensitive to previous continuity everyone is. Some seem to want the writer to over explain everything just to satisfy why they can't repeat that exceptional feat they did in a one-shot once. Some are not too bothered as long as things feel right. That's where the dichotomy really lies. Stories are not maths.

I must have phrased my point very badly, so apologies.

I didn't mean to suggest that stories should be based on power sets alone!

But I had a wry smile at your confidence that feats in line with power sets is not even a preference but a truism.

Am I imagining all those stories where the likes of Hawkeye, Batman, and Green Arrow go up against gun men, super villains, and monsters and survive?

[BAS]

What are you actually saying here? A character that is powerful may have to use his power at some point? All team books are like that. No difference. Thor on the Avengers is a case in point. This version of Franklin hasn't even had his powers defined yet and we havn't seen how his character will work. Character is the key to any conflict. We don't read books that line up people by power and then set them against each other like top trumps.

Take the Hulk. When you put him on a team book then you focus the conflict upon his character. The way he was used in all of his MCU team appearances has focused on character.

Why dont we just trust the writer to write the character in an interesting way? He has an excellent track record.

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

My suggestion is simply that Slott has to write stories that DON'T have a "Franklin resets reality" as a solution. I've enjoyed Slott's run in ASM, and his Silver Surfer series, and his prior go-rounds with the Thing series and the team in relation to those other series.

I'm not necessarily worried, but I am interested to see how he handles the new dynamic with Franklin and Val.

[JKtheMac]

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

My suggestion is simply that Slott has to write stories that DON'T have a "Franklin resets reality" as a solution. I've enjoyed Slott's run in ASM, and his Silver Surfer series, and his prior go-rounds with the Thing series and the team in relation to those other series.

I'm not necessarily worried, but I am interested to see how he handles the new dynamic with Franklin and Val.

Maybe we are just violently agreeing. You seem concerned to me.