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  1. #166
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Back and forth! He's been an adult and a near adult before.

    But so have some of the FF. Reed, Ben and Sue were aged by a Skrull device circa # 205-ish and then de-aged with the device's setting possibly snapping Sue back a little earlier (because it was set for Reed and Ben, who in that canon were several or years older than Sue)

  2. #167
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I've been holding my tongue but the part of the preview that showed this constant creation of new universes to be somewhat weak-sauce and possibly over the top, certainly an overblown use of plot to explain their activities.

  3. #168
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    The movies or the comics?

    Let me be honest, comic books/creator rarely receive awards for their work outside the comic world. And in fact, the movie versions of the examples you mentioned are probably more regarded, by many more people, than the comic works.

    I am pretty content not expecting or demanding something at the level you may be seeking. One, no one outside comics would ever see the beauty or pretty much, so its a waste. I certainly want Sue to be the most/best/well known character of Marvel Comics, but that will only happen outside the comics. The Sue of the MCU should be the greatest character in all the movies.

    I've been a FF fan since the later '60s. I've never NOT read their comic, though I don't pick up every other thing they may be in as a team or individuals.

    Clearly, they work for me and I'll take the original Galactus trilogy, The Search/Trial of Reed Richards, Hickman's entire run, and maybe an issue or two from some other creators, over Batz and Naked Blue guy, any day. (but I like the Watchmen movie a whole heck of a lot!)

  4. #169
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    There is an idea. Since we will never in 616 see a Rachel/Franklin 'ship (or will we, now that F is older?)

    Why not a similar person like Hope, and Franklin. Days of Future - Prolapse!

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    There is an idea. Since we will never in 616 see a Rachel/Franklin 'ship (or will we, now that F is older?)

    Why not a similar person like Hope, and Franklin. Days of Future - Prolapse!
    As much as I'd like to see Rachel, I can only say ... ew to Rachel-811 when it comes to that.

    Meanwhile, Hope might work, seeing how SHIELD vol. 2 #4 has this:

    85582_original.jpg

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Of course, you’re right.

    But in story telling terms does having an ultra, ultra powerful Franklin make sense?

    There’s all sorts of ways Marvel can re-set universes....without making Franklin so ultra-powerful. And all sorts of ways idea of a human having god level powers can be explored without making Franklin ultra-powerful. (Just give any one Infinity Gauntlet or similar.)

    Those are the two main reasons for idea of having Franklin so highly powered...but personally I don’t think either really holds water.

    On other hand...having Franklin around...and Reed effectively being able to do similar feats after 15 minutes in the lab..makes some of the other regular Fantastic Four characters seem pretty pointless when the action really kicks off.
    I would say wait and see how the story unfolds. I'm sure Slott understands that having a god-level character on a team presents challenges. I'm curious as to how he handles it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I've been holding my tongue but the part of the preview that showed this constant creation of new universes to be somewhat weak-sauce and possibly over the top, certainly an overblown use of plot to explain their activities.
    This is how they were left at the end of Secret Wars. Slott has to pick up that thread to explain where they've been and why they're coming back.

  7. #172
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I would say wait and see how the story unfolds. I'm sure Slott understands that having a god-level character on a team presents challenges. I'm curious as to how he handles it.


    Always happy to wait and see, as I read my comics years in arrears nowadays.

    Put it this way...I trust the “veteran” Fantastic Four readers on this site, and if in fullness of time the “group verdict” is “really good run”, I’ll be reading whatever the power levels of the characters are, but a sneaky part of me still has a preference for “re-balancing” the team powers.

  8. #173
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I especially think re-balancing is a not bad idea. For one, the plot in two in one, had a linkage between each of their powers and proximity. And I remember the run where Johnny and Sue switched powers. For some not understood reason, there is some link with their powers.

    so Reed should have much more elastic things to do. Ben should be more like the Hulk, Johnny - previous ideas about his flame/control are good.

    And Sue has for years, actually, been considered the most powerful.

    Has anyone walked back her field impacting a Celestial?

  9. #174
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    You make an excellent point. I watched my son grow up and have dealt with kids for many years and know that feeling. But your observations apply to real people. I may or may not agree with thee assessment that the kids are unnaturally aged (I don't, BTW), but in superhero fiction, it's a distinct possibility and I see where the idea comes from. Realistic dialog or story foreshadowing? It's a call we all make and I like the idea both sides are expressing opinions, even if some of these folks I disagree with.
    Well, they're definitely unnaturally aged relative to the folks like Ben and Johnny - and Johnny's friend Peter - back home in the 616. But I agree that Sue's comment is likely nothing more than a common parental refrain, rather than a statement that their aging seems too rapid for weird reasons to Reed and Sue - who are themselves experiencing the same passage of time but aging gracefully. I'm guessing that unstable molecules make an excellent substitute for celebrity plastic surgery.

  10. #175
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I know.

    But in FF case, it’s hard not to laugh at the quote “Kids are growing up fast”. I can’t resist adding a bit of extra dialogue of my own, along lines of “You have a baby boy only 60 years ago...and then one day you have to send him to secondary school....”
    Hey, now! That's 50, not 60. Don't make me, I mean Franklin, any older than is supported by the year he was born. ;-)

  11. #176
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I was going by the sliding timescale. With Franklin being born in 1968 and Valeria being born in 2002, that would put an age gap of 9 years between them. I don't remember when it was specifically established that Franklin was 8, but I could buy he was 12 during Secret Wars. So going solely by the sliding timescale logic, even if she was 11 now (which I seriously hope it's not the case because that scene with the seemingly older guy asking her to be his consort would be super creepy), that would make him at least 20. Now, of course, that would require Marvel to actually follow their own sliding timescale logic, but we know that doesn't always happen and characters age in all kinds of different ways. I guess I can overlook it when it happens in different stories, but when it's with two characters who are in the same book, appearing in the same pages, it's a little bit glaring. So I hope there is some kind of official explanation as to what's going on with Val's and Frank's ages there.
    The sliding timescale just means that the FF's rocket flight gaining them powers is no more than 15 years ago or so. Beyond that, there is no consistent ratio between Marvel time and real time, and the only measure of the age difference between Franklin and Valeria that matters at all is how old he was stated to be in the issues centered around her birth. If he was 8 then, then it's an 8 year difference, regardless of what ratio you're thinking of.

  12. #177
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Just elaborating on my soap bubble analogy of what the Richards family did to the ANAD, you think Ben and Johnny will be the only ones peeved at the family? (Because they left Ben and Johnny behind, and made them think they were dead, as just the distant uncles). There is Steve Rogers, who Reed must have been peeved at as this goody two shoes, always right, and everybody is wrong - so let’s make him evil and see how he likes it. There’s also Nick Fury junior, who we no used to be a 616 character, and has now been made the back story of the Ultimates Nick Fury. (As well as Miles Morales Spider-Man tranlocated to the ANAD with the Triscalian). Or all the characters of the Illuminati. Let’s show Tony he isn’t immortal, by giving him parents who were deadbeats in SHIELD (not his mother), and freeze him for a while. Why? So we can replace him with a woman.

    And now comes the real makeover that is the ANAD. Let’s replace all the characters with females, and this is how it went. Reed started to listen to Sue who would say, “Women would do things better than men. Replace them and they’d do a better job”. Because, it was Sue who who convinced God Doom to do things her way, always in his ear, changing things with a woman’s touch. Reed got the same treatment from Sue in the ANAD.

    This is how the rest of the ANAD are going to see the FF when they learn they were FF puppets.
    Last edited by jackolover; 09-10-2018 at 03:37 PM.

  13. #178
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Just elaborating on my soap bubble analogy of what the Richards family did to the ANAD, you think Ben and Johnny will be the only ones peeved at the family? (Because they left Ben and Johnny behind, and made them think they were dead, as just the distant uncles). There is Steve Rogers, who Reed must have been peeved at as this goody two shoes, always right, and everybody is wrong - so let’s make him evil and see how he likes it. There’s also Nick Fury junior, who we no used to be a 616 character, and has now been made the back story of the Ultimates Nick Fury. (As well as Miles Morales Spider-Man tranlocated to the ANAD with the Triscalian). Or all the characters of the Illuminati. Let’s show Tony he isn’t immortal, by giving him parents who were deadbeats in SHIELD (not his mother), and freeze him for a while. Why? So we can replace him with a woman.

    And now comes the real makeover that is the ANAD. Let’s replace all the characters with females, and this is how it went. Reed started to listen to Sue who would say, “Women would do things better than men. Replace them and they’d do a better job”. Because, it was Sue who who convinced God Doom to do things her way, always in his ear, changing things with a woman’s touch. Reed got the same treatment from Sue in the ANAD.

    This is how the rest of the ANAD are going to see the FF when they learn they were FF puppets.
    You are blaming all of this on the FF? What happens on Marvel earth or anywhere else has nothing to do with the FF, you seem to be blaming them for things that they didn't do.

    All they did was give the heroes back their earth and universe, the decisions those heroes made were all their own.

    Why are trying to pin the choices of others on the FF? They had nothing to do with any of what you mentioned.
    Get issue 1 of the INVISIBLE WOMAN mini OUT NOW!


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  14. #179
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Come on. Someone work with me here.

    Like let’s gets rid of the Hulk. That’ll fix a big problem. Then let’s kill him in CWII, but that didn’t really fix things. And let’s make Carol Danvers king of the world. She got offered whatever she wanted after CWII, but they overlooked her for the DOS position and gave it to Steve Rogers. Then look at Maria Hill, she came up with solutions to fix everything. First the baby Cosmic Cube, and then the planet force field. But where is she now? They tried using Maria and Carol as the big two of Marvel, but it never works out like they think. This is the problem with the ANAD. Million year old Avengers with Odin as leader, and his girlfriend is the Phoenix? It’s all made up.

  15. #180
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    This is how the rest of the ANAD are going to see the FF when they learn they were FF puppets.
    It's pretty much anyone's guess as to much control Franklin has over the fine details of the universes he's creating. It could be a deistic approach where he lets nature run its course on each universe without actively guiding it; he could have restored 616 as the Prime more or less the same.
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