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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    Applause ��


    More like jeers. She choses to be attached to Reed at the hip because, now here is the bombshell... get ready for it.... she LOVES him, they are MARRIED, and she loves her FAMILY.

    I know, in the 2010's it is hard to swallow that.... but there it is in over 700 issues with Susan Storm as a character, not to mention a few million years of human nature...

    Code:
    1 a : the basic unit in society traditionally consisting of two parents rearing their children; also : any of various social units differing from but regarded as equivalent to the traditional family
    
        a single-parent family
    
    b : spouse and children
    
        want to spend more time with my family
    
    2 : a group of individuals living under one roof and usually under one head : household

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    You are conjouring this up and it is not even true. Any of the Marvel characters have been available for any storyline and title at will since the very beginning, and they and Susan Storm do pop up all over the Marvel universe. The only FF member that has been really treated different has been the Thing with Marvel Two and One. Kids love the Thing. And Johny has done some solo work with Spider-man. There has never been any storyline or plot that has restricted the character of Susan Storm because of her children. In fact, she has a great house keeper who watches the kids, who herself became a central character.

    It would be great if that was the case, and Susan semi-retired because of her motherhood. It would show that motherhood, and raising a family was as important has running off the Negative Zone and to waste time on a career (or concieving child?), but alas, it is not true. She has always selfishly put her career first since the day she got onto the rocket with Reed and Ben and Johnny. And then she flirts with Namor!

    She nearly left Reed somewhere around FF140+ and toyed with Namor, and asked to move to Connecticut and all the other interesting and fascinating things that complex family life does to women and the men that love them, but never ever has it been a crutch for any inactivity, and in fact, she has never been inactive. She has been a linchpin Marvel character from the time of FF#1


    I will say that she was NOT in the original Secret Wars... but I can't remember if that was because she was taking care of baby franklin... or if she was still pregnant... It's a bit blurry for me. But that would be one instance of family keeping her out of the adventures...

    But I agree. She isn't banned from guest starring in other books because she's raising the kids. That's just irrelevant. She can do whatever she want and Johnny and Ben are perfectly fine babysitters... which would (and I think has) led to wacky adventures.

    The real reason that Sue doesn't get much exposure... is that she's the least interesting member of FF. She's the not the firey hot head... the monster with the heart of gold... those guys show up everywhere and it's awesome. Reed is the biggest brain around and guest stars everytime anyone needs a bigger brain to help them with some science stuff... but Sue? They have REALLY struggled to give her much identity that wasn't 'girlfriend, hostage, wife, mother' and every time they DO try to make her more powerful or point out that she is NOT the hostage or just the 'girlfriend'... they don't really give her anything else to replace it with. What reason would Spider-man or Captain America seek out Sue Storm for help in an adventure? Her best story hook is when they call for reed and she answers the phone...

    Sue is the one character that they REALLY need to work the most... then maybe we WILL see her doing her own thing every once in a while and cross paths with Spider-man or X-Men or Captain America books.
    Last edited by phantom1592; 09-07-2018 at 07:07 PM.

  3. #78
    Mighty Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Not going to lie this got to me. The first comic i ever had in my hands was a FF comic and i've always loved them.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    but Sue? They have REALLY struggled to give her much identity that wasn't 'girlfriend, hostage, wife, mother' and every time they DO try to make her more powerful or point out that she is NOT the hostage or just the 'girlfriend'...
    She has been the center of the FF, and its emotion core. Truly, she is the FF's most interesting character, not just because she is girlfriend, mother, sister and wife, (these aren't demerits that make her dull, but attributes that make her great), but because she is the character that breaks up Ben and Johnny's fights, and takes over the team when Reed dies, and leads and underwater kingdom, and scolds her husband ... etc etc. She is the most real of all the characters and is the touchstone for that keeps the FF together.

    If anything, she is the most worked on and developed of all the FF characters...

    She is just not a simple hot head, or loving monster. All the relationships of the FF go through Susan. It is a dynamic that doesn't exist in any other Superhero title and the last thing she or the FF needs is for her to be fixed.
    Last edited by mrbrklyn; 09-07-2018 at 07:19 PM.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    She has been the center of the FF, and its emotion core. Truly, she is the FF's most interesting character, not just because she is girlfriend, mother, sister and wife, (these aren't demerits that make her dull, but attributes that make her great), but because she is the character that breaks up Ben and Johnny's fights, and takes over the team when Reed dies, and leads and underwater kingdom, and scolds her husband ... etc etc. She is the most real of all the characters and is the touchstone for that keeps the FF together.

    If anything, she is the most worked on and developed of all the FF characters...

    She is just not a simple hot head, or loving monster. All the relationships of the FF go through Susan. It is a dynamic that doesn't exist in any other Superhero title and the last thing she or the FF needs is for her to be fixed.

    My point is that NONE of that makes her interesting OUTSIDE of the FF. The conversation was about her having outside adventures and crossovers in other books...and if your main thing is holding a team together... then what are you WITHOUT that team?

    Pretty much my opinion with most of the X-Men. Being part of the team is so ingrained in them that they just don't work solo.

  6. #81
    Incredible Member GrandEleven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    Sue's narration notes that "The kids are growing up too fast". Maybe that's a literalism in this case. Maybe travelling between freshly created worlds is messing with the kids' aging process somehow.
    The entire parenting world knows exactly what that means... I'm not sure how you guys can read so much into this. I mean sure I can be wrong ... but this honestly looks like two groups of readers: ones who've experienced what being captured here first hand, and those who are just not at that phase of their life yet. It's .... bemusing.

  7. #82
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandEleven View Post
    The entire parenting world knows exactly what that means... I'm not sure how you guys can read so much into this. I mean sure I can be wrong ... but this honestly looks like two groups of readers: ones who've experienced what being captured here first hand, and those who are just not at that phase of their life yet. It's .... bemusing.
    You make an excellent point. I watched my son grow up and have dealt with kids for many years and know that feeling. But your observations apply to real people. I may or may not agree with thee assessment that the kids are unnaturally aged (I don't, BTW), but in superhero fiction, it's a distinct possibility and I see where the idea comes from. Realistic dialog or story foreshadowing? It's a call we all make and I like the idea both sides are expressing opinions, even if some of these folks I disagree with.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    You make an excellent point. I watched my son grow up and have dealt with kids for many years and know that feeling. But your observations apply to real people. I may or may not agree with thee assessment that the kids are unnaturally aged (I don't, BTW), but in superhero fiction, it's a distinct possibility and I see where the idea comes from. Realistic dialog or story foreshadowing? It's a call we all make and I like the idea both sides are expressing opinions, even if some of these folks I disagree with.
    I'm torn on the concept myself. On one hand, IF THEY NEED to have the kids get older... I'm glad it was done somewhere outside time and space because I'm sick of kids messing up the sliding timeline. I love the classic Fantastic Four... but I have always hated the kids. Franklin was 'okay' if overpowered... but Val?? I've never liked her. My preference would have been interdimensional boarding school and let the Four get back to work :P

    That said... Aging outside of time and space doesn't bother the timeline or age anyone else, so I'm fine with that. I kind of HOPE they artificially age? Either by weird universe shenanigans, Franklin power, or even cosmic ray related... there's really NOTHING normal about these kids, the rules don't really apply to them. If not, at least the rest of the world didn't suddenly advance 12 years...

    However, I really don't like the idea that Reed and Sue haven't seen Johnny and Ben for 12 years either. That just creates a rift I don't want there to be. I don't want to see the team learning about each other again... I don't want to see Franklin and Val getting used to earth society again.. Being outside the world for a year and coming back isn't a big deal... but a decade 'lost in space'??? That's not a direction I would like.

  9. #84
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    However, I really don't like the idea that Reed and Sue haven't seen Johnny and Ben for 12 years either. That just creates a rift I don't want there to be. I don't want to see the team learning about each other again... I don't want to see Franklin and Val getting used to earth society again.. Being outside the world for a year and coming back isn't a big deal... but a decade 'lost in space'??? That's not a direction I would like.
    I have a hard time imagining any ecxplantion supporting letting Johnny and Ben not only not see them, but think they were dead for so long. Additionally, what happens with Alex and the Power family, or some of the other FF kids as well? I also don't see Sue as going without seeing Johnny for so long either even if she can glimpse him like Franklin and Val did in the Legacy special issue.

    I suspect, as has been said before, it might be better for our feelings to just go with the present and sweep the awkwardness under the bridge.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    My point is that NONE of that makes her interesting OUTSIDE of the FF..
    It certainly hampers that perhaps. But no because she is domesticated but that she is integrated

    She has less meaning outside the FF, except that others need to respect her for all she has accomplished.

    I hope they stop with the Franklin Richards eats the world stuff as well.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I'm torn on the concept myself. On one hand, IF THEY NEED to have the kids get older... I'm glad it was done somewhere outside time and space because I'm sick of kids messing up the sliding timeline. I love the classic Fantastic Four... but I have always hated the kids. Franklin was 'okay' if overpowered... but Val?? I've never liked her. My preference would have been interdimensional boarding school and let the Four get back to work :P

    That said... Aging outside of time and space doesn't bother the timeline or age anyone else, so I'm fine with that. I kind of HOPE they artificially age? Either by weird universe shenanigans, Franklin power, or even cosmic ray related... there's really NOTHING normal about these kids, the rules don't really apply to them. If not, at least the rest of the world didn't suddenly advance 12 years...

    However, I really don't like the idea that Reed and Sue haven't seen Johnny and Ben for 12 years either. That just creates a rift I don't want there to be. I don't want to see the team learning about each other again... I don't want to see Franklin and Val getting used to earth society again.. Being outside the world for a year and coming back isn't a big deal... but a decade 'lost in space'??? That's not a direction I would like.
    yeah

    Reforming the Beatles didn't really make sense either if you understood how John, Paul, George and Ringo had changed

  12. #87
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    This is how they should have showed up...

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    I was fine with the idea of aging Franklin up because I thought it would be interesting to see him as a teenager, but judging by the way they've aged Valeria (she already has breasts, which would put her at least in her early teens), he would be in his early 20s! I think that was maybe a little bit too much. Val around 6/7 and Franklin around 15/16 would've been my ideal choice of age for them now. It'd be enough to feel like a new chapter for the characters, but not too much that it would feel like we've missed out on so much of their growth. But oh well, it is what is is. Let's see how they will handle it.

  14. #89
    Unapologetic Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    More like jeers. She choses to be attached to Reed at the hip because, now here is the bombshell... get ready for it.... she LOVES him, they are MARRIED, and she loves her FAMILY.

    I know, in the 2010's it is hard to swallow that.... but there it is in over 700 issues with Susan Storm as a character, not to mention a few million years of human nature...

    Code:
    1 a : the basic unit in society traditionally consisting of two parents rearing their children; also : any of various social units differing from but regarded as equivalent to the traditional family
    
        a single-parent family
    
    b : spouse and children
    
        want to spend more time with my family
    
    2 : a group of individuals living under one roof and usually under one head : household
    You can miss me with those antiquated gender roles. We’re not in the 17th, 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries anymore. Women are allowed to be more than the spouse and mother to the men’s children.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandEleven View Post
    The entire parenting world knows exactly what that means... I'm not sure how you guys can read so much into this. I mean sure I can be wrong ... but this honestly looks like two groups of readers: ones who've experienced what being captured here first hand, and those who are just not at that phase of their life yet. It's .... bemusing.
    I know.

    But in FF case, it’s hard not to laugh at the quote “Kids are growing up fast”. I can’t resist adding a bit of extra dialogue of my own, along lines of “You have a baby boy only 60 years ago...and then one day you have to send him to secondary school....”

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