Iceman #1 (Preview)

[MechaJeanix]

I am going to buy and support this book. I'm not 100% sold by this preview, but I did enjoy the last run. I think Sina is a good writer and I love Iceman teaming up with Bishop. They were teammates on the original Gold team. I do like Iceman's classic 90s costume but strangely enough I miss his recent costume (I initially hated it).

[Tunasammiches]

This idea that Bobby's sexuality is being brought up too much is just bizarre. Should he never date? Have absolutely no hint of a personal life whatsoever?

Gay dude here; (just wanted to preface my answer to avoid confusion): Yes, Bobby should date. Yes, he should absolutely have his personal life featured. Should Bobby be talking about his dates in almost every panel of every page of every issue every time Sina writes him? PLEASE GOD NO. It gets so tired.

I cringed throughout the entire preview. It's like every character got assassinated in just those first few panels. I do like the idea of Bobby and Bishop teaming up because the team-up sounds hilarious in juxtaposition, but I will definitely not support this book because not only does the writing seem lazy and boring, but I'm borderline fake offended at how baseline stereotypical it is. Do I think it's novel to see Drag Race and Beyonce worship in an X-Men comic? Sure, but I've seen gay representation done way better, by writers who aren't even gay. The first panel and Bobby dissing himself as a "depressed gay guy". If any panel sets a tone, this one sure did. I'm kind of relieved that naysayers of vol. 1's tone being off-character are now fully aware of how off-character Sina is writing him but to that point, is this all Bobby is to Sina? Instead of homosexuality being part of Bobby's identity, now it seems to be the only part of his identity. I would enjoy this tone if it was a brand new character. I'd be excited for it. But Bobby is not new, and instead of ADDING to his character, Sina is REDUCING him to a basic bitch.

[Wiccan]

Gay dude here; (just wanted to preface my answer to avoid confusion): Yes, Bobby should date. Yes, he should absolutely have his personal life featured. Should Bobby be talking about his dates in almost every panel of every page of every issue every time Sina writes him? PLEASE GOD NO. It gets so tired.

Talk about being overdramatic. 2 out of 4 pages of the preview doesn't mention his dates. And there's no indication that this is gonna be the main plot of the issue, or the whole series in general.

[Tunasammiches]

Talk about being overdramatic. 2 out of 4 pages of the preview doesn't mention his dates. And there's no indication that this is gonna be the main plot of the issue, or the whole series in general.

Not overdramatic. Every issue of Vol. 1 revolved around Bobby's gay romantic life, peppered in with little bits of story. Let's look at Bobby's conversations in Sina's first volume:
- Kitty and Bobby talk: about what? Bobby being gay
- Bobby has dinner with his parents: What did they talk about? Bobby being gay
- Bobby Champions reunion issues: Bobby goes to a gay club in Weho and makes out
- Bobby vs. Daken: What did the fight dialog center around? Bobby being gay over and over again.
There were only 10 issues and all of them revolved around a pretty central theme, I'd say.

The indications already came from Sina's first volume and the first panel on this preview sets the same tone. In fact, every page of this very preview, mentioned or referenced something gay or alluded to gay culture. This whole series is totally about Bobby being gay, with Bishop and some Morlocks in it.

[BroHomo]

I liked the Formation line lol
Is Beyonce a day thing I've seen jtst as many chicks in the Bey hive.
I like the preview does seem gay AF..so what

[jalsrix]

I. They were teammates on the original Gold team. I do like Iceman's classic 90s costume but strangely enough I miss his recent costume (I initially hated it).

Which major X-Man hasn't been in a team with Iceman?

My guess is I think Sina Grace himself is attracted to big black men like Bishop.

I would have preferred Northstar or Karma (instead of Bishop) who Iceman worked with while back in Astonishing X-Men.

[Rover]

I want Bobby to be a superhero who just so happens to be gay. Not the "Gay Superhero." I felt like Sina's original volume of Iceman was well thought, crafted, and written... but I don't get the same feeling from this preview, and for more reasons than the gay stuff. We'll see.

I agree with this a 100%! This is how all LGBT+ representation should be , someone who is a superhero/something else and they also happen to be LGBT+. It's not the defining characteristic of their personality (or should I say a replacement for actually developing a personality for the character).

I think it's too early to judge the Iceman mini since we've only seen a handful of pages. They might start the book a little heavy-handed on the campy stuff just to set the tone and then move on to something more interesting - and still weave in some funny and over the top moments here and there. I'm really interested in the mini because I think the Iceman/Bishop dynamic has a lot of potential. The way I see it, Bobby is building this fun outgoing personality and has something more serious underneath that could be explored thanks to the team up.

[Beaubier]

Jesus that Beyoncé dialogue is so cringe.

[BroHomo]

My guess is I think Sina Grace himself is attracted to big black men like Bishop.
.

You might be projecting too much bro

[Confuzzled]

Coming out as gay and learning to live life as gay IS A LIFE ALTERING EXPERIENCE. It doesn't just affect a person's romantic involvements. It alters everything from how people view you, how you view yourself, the safe spaces and communities you need to seek out for support etc. It's like some of you have never even had an LGBT individual in your life.

Anyways can't wait for this, cringey Formation line and all.

[Devaishwarya]

This is my entire issue. It comes across like Sina is trying way too hard to appeal to what he believes the average gay man to be, even if that doesn't entirely extend to how he's portraying Iceman himself. Bobby seems... fine... for the most part other than the fact that I don't think that a superhero with an accounting degree and a gaggle of students to look after and classes to teach would have the time to go to the club or even want to; it's everything else that's the problem. Sina is pandering to the lowest common denominator because that's what he, himself, is into.

Bobby Drake is not a gay guy from West Hollywood who had to conform to the gay culture there or else risk being swept away and left behind. He doesn't strike me as the average slut. If anything, I'd label Bobby as a serial monogamist and Sina has talked about Bobby having a lot of hook ups and I'm just... not into that. That's not Bobby to me. All the references to Drag Race and Beyonce stanning (especially using Idie Okonkwo to do that with that awkward dialogue) align with him pandering just to the crowd that he falls into himself. And it doesn't work for me. As a gay man I think that Beyonce is overrated and I've never watched an episode of Drag Race in my life, and most of the gay guys that I know generally agree with that assessment unless they're a certain type - and I'm sorry, Sina is that type. Bobby's not.

I want Bobby to be a superhero who just so happens to be gay. Not the "Gay Superhero." I felt like Sina's original volume of Iceman was well thought, crafted, and written... but I don't get the same feeling from this preview, and for more reasons than the gay stuff. We'll see.

It almost feels ostracizing that Sina is writing this mini this way.

Exactatiously!
Thank you. I could not have said it better myself.

[Tmacaoni]

Is there a consensus here that you have to be gay to have an opinion?

LOL...multiple times now people have to explain that they're gay just to give an opinion on a book. Its equivalent to talking about minority topics only because you have a friend that's a minority....somehow making it better and acceptable. I'd like to think we're adults and can handle constructive criticism on a message board full of people that are playing themselves up waaay more than they truly are....sitting behind that computer screen.

Anywayz, I agree mostly with what Harpsikord has said. I don't want Bobby being the gay Superhero. It should be something where he just happens to be a gay Superhero. This is why a character like Wicaan stays amazing because sexual preference doesn't define him. He is an awesome Badarse on his own. I want the same for Bobby.

[Dante Milton]

I am so sick of calls for characters to have incidental queerness, to "just happen to be gay". It's an identity, not a hobby, not something to be ignored or discarded when convenient. It is a community and a culture. We live in a dominant culture of heterosexuality and they may be "accepting" at times, but they will never let us forget for one second that we are different, that we are other. And we are, but that doesn't make us less than. That isn't really the kind of thing you can pretend doesn't have any effect on your life, in pretty much every aspect. Bobby's sexuality doesn't have to be mentioned explicitly at all times, and it definitely hasn't been, but the character doesn't stop being gay when it isn't mentioned and, contextually, that has meaning. When the straights call for a character to just happen to be gay what it feels like they are saying is that they are fine with a character being gay as long as they don't have to see the reality of that life, as long as they aren't made uncomfortable by the truth of it. When other queer people call for it, what it feels like is them saying they are more concerned for respectability politics, for playing the role of the good gay, for not offending the delicate sensibilities of straight people, than they are about accurately depicting our community. Later for that.

[Devaishwarya]

Speaking for myself only, while I am gay, my sexuality does not and has never defined who I am. In fact, on the long list of my defining traits being gay is somewhere down in the middle. I don't ever value or judge myself or behave accordingly to what the Straights think and believe or, how society generally likes to put (us) everyone in (our) their own little boxes so that they can be at ease. Being gay does not define/determine the music I listen to, the books I read, the friends I have, the clubs and concerts I attend, the career I have, the way I dress...the only thing that's defined is who I love and who I am intimate with.

Yes, Bobby is gay, now, but this is still a superhero comic and he's still a superhero first and foremost...in my mind.

Should writers include aspects of his sexual identity in their stories? Of course! Should they do it as heavy-handedly as we've seen? Probably not. But, it would be nice to have an even balance along with his Superhero identity which, one can argue is his most defining characteristic.

[Rover]

I am so sick of calls for characters to have incidental queerness, to "just happen to be gay". It's an identity, not a hobby, not something to be ignored or discarded when convenient. It is a community and a culture. We live in a dominant culture of heterosexuality and they may be "accepting" at times, but they will never let us forget for one second that we are different, that we are other. And we are, but that doesn't make us less than. That isn't really the kind of thing you can pretend doesn't have any effect on your life, in pretty much every aspect. Bobby's sexuality doesn't have to be mentioned explicitly at all times, and it definitely hasn't been, but the character doesn't stop being gay when it isn't mentioned and, contextually, that has meaning. When the straights call for a character to just happen to be gay what it feels like they are saying is that they are fine with a character being gay as long as they don't have to see the reality of that life, as long as they aren't made uncomfortable by the truth of it. When other queer people call for it, what it feels like is them saying they are more concerned for respectability politics, for playing the role of the good gay, for not offending the delicate sensibilities of straight people, than they are about accurately depicting our community. Later for that.

For me asking for characters who 'happen to be gay' isn't about erasing that part of their identify but it's about wanting to see representation and interesting characters at the same time. Being LGBT is a huge part of someone's identity like you said, but the LGBT label can't replace developing an interesting personality for a character. We are seeing a lot more LGBT+ representation in media than we ever have, but a lot of it is two dimensional and feeds into stereotypes. And it's not just an LGBT+ thing, it applies to representations of POC, people with mental illness, people with disabilities, even different body types.

I think the Iceman mini really has potential to go further than two-dimensional representation. Bobby has always been an interesting character and the Iceman/Bishop team up is a great idea.