Iceman #1 (Preview)

[Dante Milton]

The criticisms I'm seeing so far read very much like people think it's "too gay", which is a weird thing for gay readers to complain about (especially since there isn't such a thing as too gay).

To recap, Bobby is in a gay bar district where he saves a drag queen who makes a reference to drag culture, Bobby himself does not. Queens in a gay bar is apparently unheard of though?

Later, two teenage girls reference Beyonce, again Bobby does not. How dare they. Honestly it's not a great line, but that has more to do with the fact that it's a dated reference, and a little cheesy.

This idea that Bobby's sexuality is being brought up too much is just bizarre. Should he never date? Have absolutely no hint of a personal life whatsoever?

[Tazpocalapse]

I like what i see from that preview. I always enjoyed the more light-hearted comedic aspect of Bobby.Looking forward to him and Bishop teaming up.

[Devaishwarya]

"Forced"...pardon the pun...was my criticism, in that he's coming across as trying too hard. ( I can't speak for any one else).
And, while there is no such thing as "too gay" (which no one so far has said...that's just your interpretation of our critique) too much of a good thing can make one nauseous.

[nx01a]

The entire tone of the book is very queer. Is there something wrong with that? Nope. Will Bobby forever be surrounded with Beyonce and Drag Race and clubbing references even if he's not the one referencing them? Is his sexuality the one thing he has to draw in readers? LGBT+ representation is important... and Sina is certainly representing one facet of it here. I just hope Bobby isn't from now on only known as the Gay X-Man (Sorry, Northstar) with nothing else to distinguish or attract readers to him. Kamala/Ms. Marvel isn't only known as the Muslim One; it's a part of who she is, not all she is.

Sina Grace is a Eureka fan? Ew. I'd rather Bob or Bianca or Katya... or several others before her.

[Diammandis]

how is this too gay??? WHAT DO YALL EXPECT FROM A QUEER MAN EXPLORING HIS SEXUAL IDENTITY??!??!?! he cant find a man at a straight club so ofc he's going to be in a mostly queer environment,,,

[Rover]

I think the 'too gay' criticism is because gay representation can sometimes lack depth and be reduced to the over the top campy attitude and feed into stereotypes. Honestly I think the humor shown in the preview works really well given Bobby's personality, now it's up to the writers to give him some depth beyond the campy humor, and I think they will

[Harpsikord]

I think the 'too gay' criticism is because gay representation can sometimes lack depth and be reduced to the over the top campy attitude and feed into stereotypes.

This is my entire issue. It comes across like Sina is trying way too hard to appeal to what he believes the average gay man to be, even if that doesn't entirely extend to how he's portraying Iceman himself. Bobby seems... fine... for the most part other than the fact that I don't think that a superhero with an accounting degree and a gaggle of students to look after and classes to teach would have the time to go to the club or even want to; it's everything else that's the problem. Sina is pandering to the lowest common denominator because that's what he, himself, is into.

Bobby Drake is not a gay guy from West Hollywood who had to conform to the gay culture there or else risk being swept away and left behind. He doesn't strike me as the average slut. If anything, I'd label Bobby as a serial monogamist and Sina has talked about Bobby having a lot of hook ups and I'm just... not into that. That's not Bobby to me. All the references to Drag Race and Beyonce stanning (especially using Idie Okonkwo to do that with that awkward dialogue) align with him pandering just to the crowd that he falls into himself. And it doesn't work for me. As a gay man I think that Beyonce is overrated and I've never watched an episode of Drag Race in my life, and most of the gay guys that I know generally agree with that assessment unless they're a certain type - and I'm sorry, Sina is that type. Bobby's not.

I want Bobby to be a superhero who just so happens to be gay. Not the "Gay Superhero." I felt like Sina's original volume of Iceman was well thought, crafted, and written... but I don't get the same feeling from this preview, and for more reasons than the gay stuff. We'll see.

It almost feels ostracizing that Sina is writing this mini this way.

[NewMutant]

Forget the dialogue why do they have Bobby in that boring ass costume?

Because 90s. One of his worst. I actually enjoyed the previous one.

[9th.]

Because 90s. One of his worst. I actually enjoyed the previous one.

I loved his last suit outside of the shoe's

[Havok83]

Because 90s. One of his worst. I actually enjoyed the previous one.

More like one of his best. With that said, not sure why it was brought back.

[tornshattered]

I don't mind Idie making a Beyonce reference, because even though she grew up in an african village, she didn't grow up in the 19th century. Beyonce and most other stars are well known everywhere. I really enjoy Michaela, I like the fact that she's a British-Indian girl who is sort of a dope, kind of how like Jubilee

That said, I do not like all the gay cliches Sina is pushing on Bobby. Bobby doesn't strike me as a guy who texts stuff like 'IRL' 'TLDM' or whatever.
If marvel wants a gay man to write Iceman, there are hundreds more talented writers who don't push their personalities onto characters. I think Sina would be far more suited to writing Deadpool.

[Wiccan]

I resent that remark! *flips nonexistent hair* You think the real issue some have is that the gay themes and tropes we've seen so far are 'fem'? I love Drag Race, am meh on Beyonce, and want more than Grindr and circuit parties as signifiers of gay male existence. I suspect none of this will even matter once Bobby gets down into the Morlock tunnels and the massacre starts.

Yeah I do think that. The comments are all very obvious. They say it's because they don't want Bobby to be a stereotype... But Bobby himself hasn't talked about Beyoncé, Drag Race or whatever. So if it isn't about Bobby's characterization, it can only be about those things being present at all.

[Anduinel]

He doesn't strike me as the average slut. If anything, I'd label Bobby as a serial monogamist and Sina has talked about Bobby having a lot of hook ups and I'm just... not into that.

Where has Sina said Bobby's going to be having lots of hook ups? So far I've seen him reference the fact that we're going to be seeing Bobby's dating life and that he intends to keep him single for the time being.

[Matt]

I just deleted a bunch of posts because they were either juvenile in nature or clearly did not meet the standards of these forums.
Please keep discussion to a reasonably mature standard.

[PsionicHero]

I do not have a problem with gay culture. There isnt any self hate going on here, the problem we are having is with the way in which it's being presented. Its simply lazy. I loved to see Iceman explore more of gay culture like Drag shows and the gay scene, but I dont want it sprinkled in the book in a few panels just for novelty. I love Drag and I enjoy Beyonce.

Bobby isnt doing any of that obviously, and as we've stated it's more about the tone of the preview and less about Bobby's characterization. I think the Iceman second mini series would be a great place to really explore more of gay culture in a meaningful way, and what the preview shows me is a Gay writer throwing in 'gay references' in a way that seems like pandering.

If you enjoy it, great. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't. I suppose I'm expecting a certain level of depth, and I might be disappointed. Not everyone experience is the same and I'm aware of that. Maybe I'm just being cynical because I'm watching Queer as Folk and it's just stereotype after stereotype.

Also, I would have preferred someone like Trixie, Thorgi or Alaska instead of a Eureka type.