IP-Man and Rama vs the Rocky boxers

[Nik Hasta]

it really could've gone either way between them. the difference was really paper-thin. my whole thing is that rama was fighting him with such energy and ferocity while covered in tons of cuts and bruises. he was far from 100% and yet he just seemed to get better and stronger the more bitched up he got.

There's a bit more to it than Rama just getting stronger for no reason.

If you watch the choreography in the fight there's a clear subtext of Rama adapting to the Assassin and making smarter decisions that give him the win. The whole fight is kind of told in microcosm right at the start where you have their quick exchanges of blows with the shufflefoot. The Assassin is the aggressor, Rama is defensive. Rama loses the first exchange, comes somewhat even in the second and holds his own in the third. He's learning how to fight him and using a progressively improving defensive game to get his openings. That's the story of the fight, Rama defends carefully and adapts and manages to gain the upper hand.

So, the first leg of the fight has the Assassin not taking things seriously; he's styling, he's doing silly stuff and it costs him. Things really turn around when he does the handstand kick thing, a very showy and impractical move, and Rama counters really hard and capitalises. The next phase of the fight is Rama using the environment to great effect, making the most of his opportunity granted by the Assassin not taking him seriously; lots of headslams on the counter, smashing him through the glass wine chiller, hitting him with bottles and the like. Then the Assassin gets angry and pulls out his karambit knives.

At this point the choreography shifts, the Assassin goes into really wild offensive stuff and Rama switches to almost complete defence. He's dodging and not always countering even where he could. Instead, he's being very methodical and picking his spots carefully, countering when it's safest and using locks to keep the knives from being effective while the Assassin just keeps swinging with greater and greater ferocity. Again, Rama's composure and focus wins out over the Assassin getting wild. It's not so much his power of durability, it's Rama making the right calls and not pushing his offensive approach too hard.

The final phase begins when Rama gets one of the knives. Again, the Assassin is still much more aggressive. Rama spends the majority of the exchanges dodging still and trying to suppress the Assassin's wild offensive game. He gets to the point where he's eating hits and he realises that the only way to win is through a sacrificial play. He deliberately takes the hit that buries the Assassin's blade in his shoulder and then locks him in, depriving him of his weapon and leaving him open. Despite this, the Assassin is still all offence when it would be wiser for him to abandon the blade and get out of the bad situation but he's too committed to his attacks that he can't see it.

By the time he realises what's up, Rama has him in a finishing sequence and mortally wounds him, ruins his leading arm and cuts his throat.

It's a really good fight scene and the choreography is really smart. It's not that Rama ever goes beast mode and crushes his enemy. That's factually not what happens. The Assassin is overconfident and it costs him, then he's too angry to focus and it costs him more and, finally, Rama uses said rage with the sacrificial play to get the kill. It's a direct inversion of their first encounter earlier in the film - Rama was unfocused while the Assassin is calm and beats the crap out of him.

Man, the Raid 2 was such a good film. Such a great evolution of the series.

[master of read]

There's a bit more to it than Rama just getting stronger for no reason.

If you watch the choreography in the fight there's a clear subtext of Rama adapting to the Assassin and making smarter decisions that give him the win. The whole fight is kind of told in microcosm right at the start where you have their quick exchanges of blows with the shufflefoot. The Assassin is the aggressor, Rama is defensive. Rama loses the first exchange, comes somewhat even in the second and holds his own in the third. He's learning how to fight him and using a progressively improving defensive game to get his openings. That's the story of the fight, Rama defends carefully and adapts and manages to gain the upper hand.

So, the first leg of the fight has the Assassin not taking things seriously; he's styling, he's doing silly stuff and it costs him. Things really turn around when he does the handstand kick thing, a very showy and impractical move, and Rama counters really hard and capitalises. The next phase of the fight is Rama using the environment to great effect, making the most of his opportunity granted by the Assassin not taking him seriously; lots of headslams on the counter, smashing him through the glass wine chiller, hitting him with bottles and the like. Then the Assassin gets angry and pulls out his karambit knives.

At this point the choreography shifts, the Assassin goes into really wild offensive stuff and Rama switches to almost complete defence. He's dodging and not always countering even where he could. Instead, he's being very methodical and picking his spots carefully, countering when it's safest and using locks to keep the knives from being effective while the Assassin just keeps swinging with greater and greater ferocity. Again, Rama's composure and focus wins out over the Assassin getting wild. It's not so much his power of durability, it's Rama making the right calls and not pushing his offensive approach too hard.

The final phase begins when Rama gets one of the knives. Again, the Assassin is still much more aggressive. Rama spends the majority of the exchanges dodging still and trying to suppress the Assassin's wild offensive game. He gets to the point where he's eating hits and he realises that the only way to win is through a sacrificial play. He deliberately takes the hit that buries the Assassin's blade in his shoulder and then locks him in, depriving him of his weapon and leaving him open. Despite this, the Assassin is still all offence when it would be wiser for him to abandon the blade and get out of the bad situation but he's too committed to his attacks that he can't see it.

By the time he realises what's up, Rama has him in a finishing sequence and mortally wounds him, ruins his leading arm and cuts his throat.

It's a really good fight scene and the choreography is really smart. It's not that Rama ever goes beast mode and crushes his enemy. That's factually not what happens. The Assassin is overconfident and it costs him, then he's too angry to focus and it costs him more and, finally, Rama uses said rage with the sacrificial play to get the kill. It's a direct inversion of their first encounter earlier in the film - Rama was unfocused while the Assassin is calm and beats the crap out of him.

Man, the Raid 2 was such a good film. Such a great evolution of the series.

not complaining about it. it's just weird to me in a funny sort of way.

good breakdown though.

[The Arbiter]

It took me forever to realise this wasn't Ranma lol

[SpiderClops]

There's a bit more to it than Rama just getting stronger for no reason.

If you watch the choreography in the fight there's a clear subtext of Rama adapting to the Assassin and making smarter decisions that give him the win. The whole fight is kind of told in microcosm right at the start where you have their quick exchanges of blows with the shufflefoot. The Assassin is the aggressor, Rama is defensive. Rama loses the first exchange, comes somewhat even in the second and holds his own in the third. He's learning how to fight him and using a progressively improving defensive game to get his openings. That's the story of the fight, Rama defends carefully and adapts and manages to gain the upper hand.

So, the first leg of the fight has the Assassin not taking things seriously; he's styling, he's doing silly stuff and it costs him. Things really turn around when he does the handstand kick thing, a very showy and impractical move, and Rama counters really hard and capitalises. The next phase of the fight is Rama using the environment to great effect, making the most of his opportunity granted by the Assassin not taking him seriously; lots of headslams on the counter, smashing him through the glass wine chiller, hitting him with bottles and the like. Then the Assassin gets angry and pulls out his karambit knives.

At this point the choreography shifts, the Assassin goes into really wild offensive stuff and Rama switches to almost complete defence. He's dodging and not always countering even where he could. Instead, he's being very methodical and picking his spots carefully, countering when it's safest and using locks to keep the knives from being effective while the Assassin just keeps swinging with greater and greater ferocity. Again, Rama's composure and focus wins out over the Assassin getting wild. It's not so much his power of durability, it's Rama making the right calls and not pushing his offensive approach too hard.

The final phase begins when Rama gets one of the knives. Again, the Assassin is still much more aggressive. Rama spends the majority of the exchanges dodging still and trying to suppress the Assassin's wild offensive game. He gets to the point where he's eating hits and he realises that the only way to win is through a sacrificial play. He deliberately takes the hit that buries the Assassin's blade in his shoulder and then locks him in, depriving him of his weapon and leaving him open. Despite this, the Assassin is still all offence when it would be wiser for him to abandon the blade and get out of the bad situation but he's too committed to his attacks that he can't see it.

By the time he realises what's up, Rama has him in a finishing sequence and mortally wounds him, ruins his leading arm and cuts his throat.

It's a really good fight scene and the choreography is really smart. It's not that Rama ever goes beast mode and crushes his enemy. That's factually not what happens. The Assassin is overconfident and it costs him, then he's too angry to focus and it costs him more and, finally, Rama uses said rage with the sacrificial play to get the kill. It's a direct inversion of their first encounter earlier in the film - Rama was unfocused while the Assassin is calm and beats the crap out of him.

Man, the Raid 2 was such a good film. Such a great evolution of the series.

Wow, never looked at it that way. Good analysis. Thanks.

[Adrian Fomble]

So back to the topic, how would the Rocky movies change if Rama replaced Rocky in all of his movies? And how would the Rocky movies change if all the Rama villains replaced the Rocky Boxers and became boxers themselves?

[Twickster]

And how would the Rocky movies change if all the Rama villains replaced the Rocky Boxers and became boxers themselves?

Raid villains aren't boxers though... Are you spotting them their respective fighting styles?

[Adrian Fomble]

Raid villains aren't boxers though... Are you spotting them their respective fighting styles?

Ummmm.... Yes in combination with basic American boxing (or just their styles to be a little fairer to Rocky).

[Adrian Fomble]

Or even better what if all the IP-Man villains replaced the Rocky villains in Rocky, how would Rocky fare against each in the ring?

[master of read]

frankie would murder rocky, sadly.

[Adrian Fomble]

frankie would murder rocky, sadly.

But everyone else from Donny Yen IP-Man's universe (the villains)? And what of the Raid villains? Both in the ring?

[master of read]

But everyone else from Donny Yen IP-Man's universe (the villains)? And what of the Raid villains? Both in the ring?

i'd have to re-up my knowledge on ip-man for the rest.

mad dog beats him to death. bar none. rocky doesn't hit hard enough to really bother him and mad dog will just pound away at him until he stops moving.

you gotta understand something. rocky, for all his fame..........wasn't that good of a boxer. as others have pointed out many times, his main strat is to just take his foes hits until they get tired and punch back.

[grampagen]

But everyone else from Donny Yen IP-Man's universe (the villains)? And what of the Raid villains? Both in the ring?

I'm assuming we're going with boxing rules? Like are these characters allowed to kick and grapple, because this changes a lot.

Speaking in sheer physical abilities though:

Ip Man 1:

Kam Shan-Chu (Louis Fan aka the Northerner) He's strong enough to send men flying with his strikes and endure a full on barrage from Ip Man without breaking anything - the notable exception being a pole shoved into his ear which made him deaf on that side in the sequel. Drago might give him problems sheerly from reach but his constitution might be close enough to Rocky's to go the distance.

Miura (The Japanese General) This guy has no really outstanding feats beyond ruining some guys who were essentially a normies. I personally rate him a bit lower than the Northerner, but he wouldn't do great against the likes of Rocky and Apollo since his footwork was a bit stiff and he got wasted one-sidedly once Ip Man decided to take things seriously.

Ip Man 2:

Master Hong (Sammo Hung): He doesn't have the endurance to last; the Creed estate sues him for intellectual property theft.

Twister (Darren Shahlavi): I don't think this character is in the same (physical) weightclass as the Rocky heavyweights but his hitting power is pretty crazy. Rigging the rules aside, his skills are legit as as he sent Ip Man to the canvas and killed Master Hong before twisting things. He's probably closest to Clubber Lang in style but is much faster.

Ip Man 3:

Frankie (Mike Tyson): Given Mike is basically playing himself here, the basic D'amato shifts and shovel hooks makes him a godlike technical genius in Rocky's world. Combine that with his stupid hitting power, his style is impetuous and his defenses are impregnable.

Cheung Te-Ching (Max Zhang): He's more or less identical to Ip Man stats wise but is more ruthless in his applications. His beast feats are with weapons though.

[Iron_Twister]

Yeah, Rocky wasn't exactly superhuman, just one hell of a sponge who can take hits at his A-game. He did get better technical wise but overall, he's that kind of guy who can brawl...Nothing really special but he can sorta do it as his training under Apollo showed. But again, Rocky usually go for slug festing.

While his fight with Drago was insane giving he went round after round getting pounded...It's worth noting his career as a boxer ended because of it.

...These guys in Ip Man and Raid films would destroy him, even down to boxing rules.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Yeah, Rocky wasn't exactly superhuman, just one hell of a sponge who can take hits at his A-game. He did get better technical wise but overall, he's that kind of guy who can brawl...Nothing really special but he can sorta do it as his training under Apollo showed. But again, Rocky usually go for slug festing.

While his fight with Drago was insane giving he went round after round getting pounded...It's worth noting his career as a boxer ended because of it.

...These guys in Ip Man and Raid films would destroy him, even down to boxing rules.

I believe, if we take Drago's hitting strength at face value which ai assume we are, it is definitively superhuman to take hundreds and or thousands of hits and be alive. A real life human, like smoke Tyson, would probably be dead after 2 or 3 punches.

[master of read]

I believe, if we take Drago's hitting strength at face value which ai assume we are, it is definitively superhuman to take hundreds and or thousands of hits and be alive. A real life human, like smoke Tyson, would probably be dead after 2 or 3 punches.

so by that defination, apollo must be superhuman in someway as he was able to last until the second round before eventually dying.