Possible Solution to the SMWW / Clois Division?

[friendly-fire-press]

This thread has not been created to start a fight. It's an attempt to find a solution to the division within the comic community regarding SMWW and Clois.

There has obviously been a lot of heated debate (and attacks) over the years from both sides of the division but I'd like all of that to be put behind us. I don't think there's much point in having a debate any more. That's been done. In many ways, there is no debate anymore, there is only division. I personally would like the comic community to be a bit more united (or as much as possible) and I suspect DC would like to capitalise as much profit from this upon this as best they can.

Here's the situation, as I see it.

BOTH fanbases have a lot of support, certainly enough support to keep an ongoing comic book running. I think it may be time for DC to attempt providing a monthly comic for both SMWW and Clois (and maybe even a single Superman) at the same time.

There are a couple of ways they can go about doing this.

1. Set each comic in alternate realities or their own continuities, etc

2. Set each comic set during different times in the character's lives (ie a jeans-and-t-shirt Clark at the start of his superhero career when he's single, A Clois comic set in the present (like the current one) and a SMWW comic set in the middle ... or some other variation of this idea)

This way everyone is getting a comic to buy and DC are making money off both/all fanbases (rather than just one over another)

This is just an idea. It's also an olive branch. So let's please try to play nice. What say you?

[Rod G]

BOTH fanbases have a lot of support, certainly enough support to keep an ongoing comic book running. I think it may be time for DC to attempt providing a monthly comic for both SMWW and Clois (and maybe even a single Superman) at the same time.

There are a couple of ways they can go about doing this.

1. Set each comic in alternate realities or their own continuities, etc

2. Set each comic set during different times in the character's lives (ie a jeans-and-t-shirt Clark at the start of his superhero career when he's single, A Clois comic set in the present (like the current one) and a SMWW comic set in the middle ... or some other variation of this idea)

This way everyone is getting a comic to buy and DC are making money off both/all fanbases (rather than just one over another)

This is just an idea. It's also an olive branch. So let's please try to play nice. What say you?

Hey, I’m all for this since it sounds rather good to me.

[Baseman]

Its ships your talking about.A fights going to happen regardless.

But seriously alternate realities seems too be the best solution in my opinion.

Everyone gives the follow the ship they prefer without the fear of a bad breakup happening in the future to Tigger the opposing ship.

Win-Win.

[Miles To Go]

There's always that concern that alternate universe books don't really fly in the market. At least for long. DC don't do elseworld ongoings all that much, they prefer closed narrative mini-series with these concepts, mainly because it's hard to sustain long-term interest with Clark and Diana.

If we do a comic series set between Clark's singles life and his marriage to Lois with a relationship with Diana in the middle...I don't know again if fans of S/WW will commit to that, as it would also be a closed narrative. You can stretch out their happiness from now 'till doomsday, but those readers would know in the back of their heads their relationship would have a finite existence and ultimately Clark would choose Lois, and it would leave them with this bittersweet feeling (with an emphasis on "bitter"). Most of the S/WW fandom tend to prefer those two being an endgame, not a distraction for the genuine endgame.

Also, with the way DC casually dismissed S/WW in their animated movies, not even "dignifying" them with a visual depiction of their break-up, it really shows the level of interest the studios have in pursuing two pairings. I feel they believe it muddies the waters too much and meddles with the iconic narrative that you need to sustain for countless generations to follow. A good part of Clark's story is defined by his relationship with Lois, accept no substitute.

[Armor of God]

Nah, it wont work. Truth is that writers dont like being pidgeonholed. You cant tell them that they cant touch Clois in one book and Superman/Wonder Woman in another. If Bendis wants then he can and will write Superman/Wonder Womanin either of his books. He doesn't need an out of continuity book or an alternate universe for something like that. The problem is that no matter the size of its fanbase the idea of Superman and Wonder Woman in the long term is just unworkable. They're 2 separate IPs' and the basic stories that can be told are the same with Wonder Woman as they are with Lois. If you want to have Superman fighting demons, gods and magic you dont need Wonder Woman. You dont even need her for an offspring now either as the longstanding myth of Lois being unable to bear his child has been shattered. Narratively Wonder Woman does not provide much options and it has virtually has no support in DC's writing brass from either characters sides. Sure DC can publish Superman/Wonder Woman and get decent sales but they can easily do the same with Batman/Wonder Woman, Flash/Wonder Woman or Green Lantern/Wonder Woman or even Nightwing/Wonder Woman. As for fans, yes Superman/Wonder has fans but thats because DC allowed them to grow by specifically catering to them. There are far more of them after New 52 than there were before. If DC pushes Batman/Wonder Woman for a years the way they did Superman/Wonder Woman then the former will have a vocal fanbase as well. Heck there is a solid number of Batman/Wonder Woman fans. Its just that they've never been pandered to.

[Miles To Go]

Heck there is a solid number of Batman/Wonder Woman fans. Its just that they've never been pandered to.

There was quite a push for Batman/WW in the 2000s. The JL Cartoon, the Rucka team-ups, Blackest Night etc.

Hell, there's even recent examples like Tom King's Batman ran, the recent Brave and the Bold mini and the JL movie.

[Armor of God]

There was quite a push for Batman/WW in the 2000s. The JL Cartoon, the Rucka team-ups, Blackest Night etc.

Hell, there's even recent examples like Tom King's Batman ran, the recent Brave and the Bold mini and the JL movie.

They never went all out with it, it doesn't even remotely compare to the New 52.

The JL cartoon devoted about 4-5 episodes and then forgot about it.
Rucka only hinted in the Blackest Night mini and then he left DC for 7 years.
Brave and the Bold mini had absolutely no romantic undertones.
King's Batman crapped on it to prop the relationship with Catwoman.
The JL movie just had Ben Affleck flirting with Gal Gadot in 2 scenes. And with Affleck pretty much out and no JL film being visible in the coming years that's pretty much all we have got it.
When has DC invested in a romance Batman/Wonder Woman book? Has DC marketed their relationship with merch and banners and what not? Has DC invested in showing us Batman and Wonder Woman sharing the same bed? Their relationship has always amounted to flirting and teasing with an occasional kiss here and there. On the other hand they've gone all out with Superman/Wonder Woman in the past. Did they eventually dump it? Sure but between 2012 and 2015 they were fully and continously commited to it.

[rpmaluki]

I don't think a solution exists that would make both camps happy IMHO. I'm a firm believer in keeping the trinity strictly platonic all round. I hate the idea of WW being "passed around" between the guys whether it's AU or elseworld or tas or whatever. I just get icky vibes from it, WW deserves better than that in my opinion so I prefer the love interest to keep within their relevant IP's, like Lois, Selena/Talia and Steve. It's so much easier that way, less opportunity for fandom wars.

[Netherman14]

While I won't deny having my own preferences in regards to who should be Nuperman's true romantic partner, this "if you don't pair Nu52 Superman with either Lois or Diana you just don't understand the character" type of elitism has to stop.

It's just inane and childish, and it's just leads to pointlessly toxic shipping wars.

SuperWonder toxicity.png

[Armor of God]

Shippers are an irrational bunch regardless of who they ship.

[Miles To Go]

Pretty sure we had a thread for this type of discussion already.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...Clois-Division

[Miles To Go]

Annnd sorted, thanks mods.

[Miles To Go]

So someone in the Clois appreciation thread suggested that the multiple posts from the same people and flooding the thread with images (both new and ones seen before in the prior incarnation of the appreciation thread), needs to stop to avoid a further repeat of the forum slow down we experienced some weeks ago...I'm sort of in agreement with that as I can sometimes get carried away but the S/WW thread is now much larger in page count that the Clois one and gets away with the same thing without much of a lecture. Same people posting almost immediately after they've already posted, sometimes to quote someone (which they can easily add to their first post) and sometimes to swamp the place with imagery from instagram and, yes, the same pictures as seen in the previous version of the appreciation thread.

This isn't intended as a knock, but it doesn't seem fair to me.

I think we're all a little too competitive at the end of the day, so maybe we need to make a collective effort to crank down on our passions just a little.

[hellacre]

While I won't deny having my own preferences in regards to who should be Nuperman's true romantic partner, this "if you don't pair Nu52 Superman with either Lois or Diana you just don't understand the character" type of elitism has to stop.

It's just inane and childish, and it's just leads to pointlessly toxic shipping wars.

SuperWonder toxicity.png

First of all this was from part of a conversation from the smww twitter which I am one of the admins. Why it is brought here without permission I have no idea.

https://twitter.com/DianaAndKal/stat...02756065153027

This discussion was about the history new 52 Superman has with Wonder Woman which this person ( which if yourself) implied new 52 SM did not care for WW and brought Lana into this, again why I have no idea. The reply was a response saying SM and WW were together and snyperstrike pointing that out, does not make it toxic. Even DC is on record to validate the new 52 smww relationship. For anyone to suggest smww fans raising the point that new 52 SM and WW shared history is toxic is very unfair to the SMWW fans. It's like we can't even have what we had. Don't blame us for buying into a narrative DC actually gave us for five years.

[Frostbite883]

First of all this was from part of a conversation from the smww twitter which I am one of the admins. Why it is brought here without permission I have no idea.

https://twitter.com/DianaAndKal/stat...02756065153027

This discussion was about the history new 52 Superman has with Wonder Woman which this person ( which if yourself) implied new 52 SM did not care for WW and brought Lana into this, again why I have no idea. The reply was a response saying SM and WW were together and snyperstrike pointing that out, does not make it toxic. Even DC is on record to validate the new 52 smww relationship. For anyone to suggest smww fans raising the point that new 52 SM and WW shared history is toxic is very unfair to the SMWW fans. It's like we can't even have what we had. Don't blame us for buying into a narrative DC actually gave us for five years.

Hopefully that person wasn't your typical 'middler' (or some sort of an actual one who's clueless on what's really going down here and not taking the time to understand some stuff).