Possible Solution to the SMWW / Clois Division?

[friendly-fire-press]

This thread has not been created to start a fight. It's an attempt to find a solution to the division within the comic community regarding SMWW and Clois.

There has obviously been a lot of heated debate (and attacks) over the years from both sides of the division but I'd like all of that to be put behind us. I don't think there's much point in having a debate any more. That's been done. In many ways, there is no debate anymore, there is only division. I personally would like the comic community to be a bit more united (or as much as possible) and I suspect DC would like to capitalise as much profit from this upon this as best they can.

Here's the situation, as I see it.

BOTH fanbases have a lot of support, certainly enough support to keep an ongoing comic book running. I think it may be time for DC to attempt providing a monthly comic for both SMWW and Clois (and maybe even a single Superman) at the same time.

There are a couple of ways they can go about doing this.

1. Set each comic in alternate realities or their own continuities, etc

2. Set each comic set during different times in the character's lives (ie a jeans-and-t-shirt Clark at the start of his superhero career when he's single, A Clois comic set in the present (like the current one) and a SMWW comic set in the middle ... or some other variation of this idea)

This way everyone is getting a comic to buy and DC are making money off both/all fanbases (rather than just one over another)

This is just an idea. It's also an olive branch. So let's please try to play nice. What say you?

[Rod G]

BOTH fanbases have a lot of support, certainly enough support to keep an ongoing comic book running. I think it may be time for DC to attempt providing a monthly comic for both SMWW and Clois (and maybe even a single Superman) at the same time.

There are a couple of ways they can go about doing this.

1. Set each comic in alternate realities or their own continuities, etc

2. Set each comic set during different times in the character's lives (ie a jeans-and-t-shirt Clark at the start of his superhero career when he's single, A Clois comic set in the present (like the current one) and a SMWW comic set in the middle ... or some other variation of this idea)

This way everyone is getting a comic to buy and DC are making money off both/all fanbases (rather than just one over another)

This is just an idea. It's also an olive branch. So let's please try to play nice. What say you?

Hey, I’m all for this since it sounds rather good to me.

[Baseman]

Its ships your talking about.A fights going to happen regardless.

But seriously alternate realities seems too be the best solution in my opinion.

Everyone gives the follow the ship they prefer without the fear of a bad breakup happening in the future to Tigger the opposing ship.

Win-Win.

[Miles To Go]

There's always that concern that alternate universe books don't really fly in the market. At least for long. DC don't do elseworld ongoings all that much, they prefer closed narrative mini-series with these concepts, mainly because it's hard to sustain long-term interest with Clark and Diana.

If we do a comic series set between Clark's singles life and his marriage to Lois with a relationship with Diana in the middle...I don't know again if fans of S/WW will commit to that, as it would also be a closed narrative. You can stretch out their happiness from now 'till doomsday, but those readers would know in the back of their heads their relationship would have a finite existence and ultimately Clark would choose Lois, and it would leave them with this bittersweet feeling (with an emphasis on "bitter"). Most of the S/WW fandom tend to prefer those two being an endgame, not a distraction for the genuine endgame.

Also, with the way DC casually dismissed S/WW in their animated movies, not even "dignifying" them with a visual depiction of their break-up, it really shows the level of interest the studios have in pursuing two pairings. I feel they believe it muddies the waters too much and meddles with the iconic narrative that you need to sustain for countless generations to follow. A good part of Clark's story is defined by his relationship with Lois, accept no substitute.

[Armor of God]

Nah, it wont work. Truth is that writers dont like being pidgeonholed. You cant tell them that they cant touch Clois in one book and Superman/Wonder Woman in another. If Bendis wants then he can and will write Superman/Wonder Womanin either of his books. He doesn't need an out of continuity book or an alternate universe for something like that. The problem is that no matter the size of its fanbase the idea of Superman and Wonder Woman in the long term is just unworkable. They're 2 separate IPs' and the basic stories that can be told are the same with Wonder Woman as they are with Lois. If you want to have Superman fighting demons, gods and magic you dont need Wonder Woman. You dont even need her for an offspring now either as the longstanding myth of Lois being unable to bear his child has been shattered. Narratively Wonder Woman does not provide much options and it has virtually has no support in DC's writing brass from either characters sides. Sure DC can publish Superman/Wonder Woman and get decent sales but they can easily do the same with Batman/Wonder Woman, Flash/Wonder Woman or Green Lantern/Wonder Woman or even Nightwing/Wonder Woman. As for fans, yes Superman/Wonder has fans but thats because DC allowed them to grow by specifically catering to them. There are far more of them after New 52 than there were before. If DC pushes Batman/Wonder Woman for a years the way they did Superman/Wonder Woman then the former will have a vocal fanbase as well. Heck there is a solid number of Batman/Wonder Woman fans. Its just that they've never been pandered to.

[Miles To Go]

Heck there is a solid number of Batman/Wonder Woman fans. Its just that they've never been pandered to.

There was quite a push for Batman/WW in the 2000s. The JL Cartoon, the Rucka team-ups, Blackest Night etc.

Hell, there's even recent examples like Tom King's Batman ran, the recent Brave and the Bold mini and the JL movie.

[Armor of God]

There was quite a push for Batman/WW in the 2000s. The JL Cartoon, the Rucka team-ups, Blackest Night etc.

Hell, there's even recent examples like Tom King's Batman ran, the recent Brave and the Bold mini and the JL movie.

They never went all out with it, it doesn't even remotely compare to the New 52.

The JL cartoon devoted about 4-5 episodes and then forgot about it.
Rucka only hinted in the Blackest Night mini and then he left DC for 7 years.
Brave and the Bold mini had absolutely no romantic undertones.
King's Batman crapped on it to prop the relationship with Catwoman.
The JL movie just had Ben Affleck flirting with Gal Gadot in 2 scenes. And with Affleck pretty much out and no JL film being visible in the coming years that's pretty much all we have got it.
When has DC invested in a romance Batman/Wonder Woman book? Has DC marketed their relationship with merch and banners and what not? Has DC invested in showing us Batman and Wonder Woman sharing the same bed? Their relationship has always amounted to flirting and teasing with an occasional kiss here and there. On the other hand they've gone all out with Superman/Wonder Woman in the past. Did they eventually dump it? Sure but between 2012 and 2015 they were fully and continously commited to it.

[daBronzeBomma]

Sorry, just "no" to the OP.

Superman x Wonder Woman is a fine idea for Elseworlds or A.U. stories, but just unworkable for main canon incarnations of each character. Same deal with Batman x Wonder Woman.

You can't intermix your 3 biggest I.P.s to that extent without screwing one of those alpha characters over (and let's be real: Diana will almost certainly be the "screwee" in either scenario).

D.C. will always be better off with each of the Trinity going with their respective beta partners: Lois Lane, Selina Kyle, and Steve Trevor.

[Sacred Knight]

I think the separate Earth is a fine solution, and for a lot more reasons than just this. In fact SM/WW is probably on the lower end of the list of why the second Earth makes all the sense in the world and why I've been advocating it forever. Its ingrained in DCU lore. I wanted it pre-Flashpoint. I wanted it during the New 52 (only then it was reversed with the idea being the old history back on its own Earth), and I want it now that the main Earth has switched back (this time with the reboot scenario on the new Earth).

As for fans, yes Superman/Wonder has fans but thats because DC allowed them to grow by specifically catering to them. There are far more of them after New 52 than there were before.

Not entirely accurate. The New 52 certainly created more fans, but its not the New 52 that made it substantial. This is something that has had its share of fans since the pre-Crisis era, so we're talking nearly half a century here. That was a of course a very different time, but then fast forward to post-Crisis and you had the Elseworlds imprint, where it was done often, and that really made it grow in regards to "modern" fandom. All this long before the New 52. Its had a sizeable fanbase for a very long time.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I think the separate Earth is a fine solution, and for a lot more reasons than just this. In fact SM/WW is probably on the lower end of the list of why the second Earth makes all the sense in the world and why I've been advocating it forever. Its ingrained in DCU lore. I wanted it pre-Flashpoint. I wanted it during the New 52 (only then it was reversed with the idea being the old history back on its own Earth), and I want it now that the main Earth has switched back (this time with the reboot scenario on the new Earth).

Pre-Crisis Earth 1/Earth 2 docet.

[Sacred Knight]

They could say that no matter what SM/WW is off the table, and I'd still support the secondary Earth idea because I think its profitable and fits the lore on so many other levels. I'd be disappointed if that were an edict, for sure, but its more a situation where I just think "hey, this can fit here" as opposed to lets create an entirely new continuity JUST for this purpose.

Btw I'm aware they tried a lot of this in the New 52 with Earth-2. Obviously with a lot of different details due to the status quo of that era but the core idea was similar. But I'd argue it was working quite well in its own right until Robinson left.

[Miles To Go]

Ah yes, Earth-2....first thing that did was kill the whole Trinity off, including a happily married Batman.

[Sacred Knight]

Which at the time I thought was a very good move. Considering what they were going for at the time, building a new JSA on its own Earth, that was the right way to go about things (or just not have them exist at all in that continuity). The mistake was bringing any of them back (Superman).

That's obviously not what they want anymore, they want the JSA on the main Earth, so that leaves things open for the "New 52/Ultimate" set up.

[Last Son of Krypton]

They could say that no matter what SM/WW is off the table, and I'd still support the secondary Earth idea because I think its profitable and fits the lore on so many other levels. I'd be disappointed if that were an edict, for sure, but its more a situation where I just think "hey, this can fit here" as opposed to lets create an entirely new continuity JUST for this purpose.

Btw I'm aware they tried a lot of this in the New 52 with Earth-2. Obviously with a lot of different details due to the status quo of that era but the core idea was similar. But I'd argue it was working quite well in its own right until Robinson left.

I think that after the Earth 2 series, DC isn't interested anymore in this kind of ongoing books set on another Earth. If writers want to explore another reality, there're one-shots, miniseries, or the main character of a book can end up for an arc on another earth.

[Sacred Knight]

I think there's the possibility just because I think Didio is still a fan of the reboot idea, and they have Bendis now who spearheaded Marvel's incarnation. I think there's a realistic shot. But that's me.