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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    I think that after the Earth 2 series, DC isn't interested anymore in this kind of ongoing books set on another Earth. If writers want to explore another reality, there're one-shots, miniseries, or the main character of a book can end up for an arc on another earth.
    Exactly what I said in my first post of the thread. DC would rather produce short form stories in these realities with closed narratives than risk an ongoing of variable quality (which the New 52 undoubtedly was)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I think there's the possibility just because I think Didio is still a fan of the reboot idea, and they have Bendis now who spearheaded Marvel's incarnation. I think there's a realistic shot. But that's me.
    Honestly, knowing current trends, I'm expecting more to come out of the dark multiverse than anything concrete from the New 52. Metal was a phenomenal success.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 09-09-2018 at 11:17 AM.

  2. #17
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    I don't think a solution exists that would make both camps happy IMHO. I'm a firm believer in keeping the trinity strictly platonic all round. I hate the idea of WW being "passed around" between the guys whether it's AU or elseworld or tas or whatever. I just get icky vibes from it, WW deserves better than that in my opinion so I prefer the love interest to keep within their relevant IP's, like Lois, Selena/Talia and Steve. It's so much easier that way, less opportunity for fandom wars.

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Honestly, knowing current trends, I'm expecting more to come out of the dark multiverse than anything concrete from the New 52.
    Certainly the Dark Multiverse will be around, its supposed to be substantial. But speaking of the Dark Multiverse, we have that Sideways story coming up where a New 52-like Superman is showing up. A normal alternate incarnation of Superman inside a Multiverse that's thing is dark, perverse incarnations. Doesn't seem like a denizen that fits at all. Its enough to make me intrigued about what they might be hinting about who that guy is.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I think there's the possibility just because I think Didio is still a fan of the reboot idea, and they have Bendis now who spearheaded Marvel's incarnation. I think there's a realistic shot. But that's me.
    Maybe in the form of another imprint? Lately, DiDio seems obsessed with launching a new one every month.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Certainly the Dark Multiverse will be around, its supposed to be substantial. But speaking of the Dark Multiverse, we have that Sideways story coming up where a New 52-like Superman is showing up. A normal alternate incarnation of Superman inside a Multiverse that's thing is dark, perverse incarnations. Doesn't seem like a denizen that fits at all. Its enough to make me intrigued about what they might be hinting about who that guy is.
    Oh yeah, there is that. I have some cool theories, a hypertime remnant being one of them.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Obviously I expect nothing major to come out of it within that book, its highly likely its a one-time guest appearance. Hell he might even "die". But its the idea it represents that intrigues me of why something like that is in the Dark Mulitverse in the first place. There's something "normal" in a place where such things shouldn't exist, basically. And that piques my curiosity. Are there non-nightmare worlds trapped there for some reason? Could it have something to do with why the Multiverse is dying as Hal is about to discover?

    Obviously when forming theories one can read into things just what they want to read into things. Maybe that's all I'm doing. But, I do think its intriguing stuff. Oh and by the way we're on the cusp of another Crisis. Maybe I'm crazy, but maybe I'm not.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-09-2018 at 11:28 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    The same way they did an Earth 2 series they could do a new 52 earth series. I'd buy it. And so would other people. The fact is SMWW DID work as a status quo. It was not some idea that was just teased in a mini etc. It actually was IN the line for 5 years. DC themselves sabotaged it, NOT THE SALES. And the comparative numbers of new 52 to Rebirth shows that New 52 was not the failure some like to say it was. Fact it was a success and Diddio and Lee have confirmed that. The sales charts clearly show this. Rebirth had incentives new 52 never had and yet its sales and are back to what they were coming off DCYOU. DC have to use relaunchs and variants to get sales up recently. So lets not kid ourselves Rebirth is or was some huge turnaround in comics.

    The new 52 took risks, had new material, new status quo, ...and people still bought it.

    DC can keep SMLL in canon I am fine with that. It does not bother me. I just want options.

    DC gives readers digital firsts minis and series etc during the new 52 and even during Rebirth, so asking for a smww title is no different to that. And it prob sell better than many of those do. If this was some idea that was just being suggested I'd get the skepticism. But we had the SMWW status quo. It was a success as far as I am concerned. What will make it viable is the creative team and writer. eg Soule clearly was better received than Tomasi. So if they did one title...then it would have to be someone who can write the dynamic and make it interesting. I believe it can be done using the multiverse. And grudging fans one title (like an Earth 2) because it is not tradition as some might argue seems quite counter productive to me. I'd take a SMWW book, and go crazy with the sci fi and fantasy ideas. Think like Thor Ragnarok kind of vibe.
    Last edited by hellacre; 09-09-2018 at 11:30 AM.

  8. #23
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    I think the two universes thing works only in theory, but not practice.

    My go to thought has always been "well, it sounds hard enough to run one comic continuity without also having a full line of books dedicated to another." Then I'd remember, "oh yeah, but the Ultimate line." But then I remember what ultimately happened to that line, and Kurt Busiek's interesting time functioning alongside that line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek
    We never get to see the whole story at once, but from my end, I’d told Tom Brevoort that if they did ULTIMATE AVENGERS I’d seriously consider leaving AVENGERS, and he told me a few days later that they wouldn’t do that, so I stuck around and did The Kang Dynasty.

    So may be my request had some weight and they just told Millar a story, or it may have been complete coincidence — it’s true that the Jemas-era PTB weren’t fond of our approach, but we were still one of the top books at the company and outselling “cool” titles like DAREDEVIL.

    But my reasoning was that if they did ULTIMATE AVENGERS, they’d invariably promote it as the cool new thing, an improvement on that old uncool existing book, and I didn’t want to be working on a book that the publisher was dissing.

    With ULTIMATE X-MEN, they launched it, it was promoted as the cool thing, then afterward Grant took over the mainline X-MEN and it got to be “new and fresh.” On Spider-Man, I think it was similar.

    So when they did ULTIMATES, which was ULTIMATE AVENGERS in all but name, I knew it was time to take a bow and leave, so that the next creative team could be new and fresh, rather than hanging around and getting labeled old and fusty.

    No particular hard feelings on my end — I went off and got to be new and fresh on books like CONAN. That’s just how comics work.

    But my end of the story is that they didn’t call the book ULTIMATE AVENGERS because I asked them not to, not because AVENGERS was a dead franchise. Marvel back then wished most of their books were selling as well as we were.

    And I think our run’s clearly been valued over time, in terms of all the nice reprints and such. ULTIMATES did very well, too — nobody needs to **** on one book to promote the other.

    On top of the idea that it's already crazy hard for any major comic company to keep just ongoing shared universe in working and profitable, there's the very real chance that the books would end up actively butting heads via perception if not marketing. One of the lines inevitable becoming "old" or "uncool." Titles like the Superman line, Wonder Woman line, or Titles line that regularly function on uneven ground sales wise (more or less) would be in the very real danger of being labeled the "uncool Superman book" or the "old Wonder Woman book." Plus, there's the very real possibility of "Shock Value: The Comic Line" similar to how the Ultimate universe went down in its efforts to go further and further being the simple twist that Bendis and Millar put on them. That's not even taking into account how other creators might potentially feel similar to Mr. Busiek above.

    In a perfect world, none of that stuff happens and everything works out great, but that's not the world we currently inhabit.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Well when all is said and done I'm just a fan. I'm not in the business and never have been so I can't intelligently analyze the potential challenges and the worth of tackling those challenges, but its still something I've wanted to see for a really long time, so I'll push it whenever I can as a fan.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-09-2018 at 11:39 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  10. #25
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Gotcha

    10 characters
    Last edited by Superlad93; 09-09-2018 at 12:10 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Aw man don't you just hate when you rethink something but it gets quoted? Lol. I took that back specifically because I thought, "You know, I'm not IN advertising, so I can't say". So I replaced it with something far more honest.

    One thought I had though about doing something like this and eventually having one win out over the other...I actually wouldn't think that'd be so bad. If the history wins out, okay, stop wasting your time with the other if its not doing good. And vice versa. Or, there's a sustained market for both and you can do both. But if you can't, you can at least say you tried and you got the message upon trying. All New 52/Rebirth has taught us is that both models will sell in a given time period. Fans of both sides will defend it to the end in regards to quality but in regards to actual numbers, the results were quite similar.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-09-2018 at 12:08 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  12. #27
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    No worries. Edited.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  13. #28
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    You didn't have to do that for my sake, I was too late and thems the breaks. You make fine points.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  14. #29
    Mighty Member Lokimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I think the two universes thing works only in theory, but not practice.

    My go to thought has always been "well, it sounds hard enough to run one comic continuity without also having a full line of books dedicated to another." Then I'd remember, "oh yeah, but the Ultimate line." But then I remember what ultimately happened to that line, and Kurt Busiek's interesting time functioning alongside that line.




    On top of the idea that it's already crazy hard for any major comic company to keep just ongoing shared universe in working and profitable, there's the very real chance that the books would end up actively butting heads via perception if not marketing. One of the lines inevitable becoming "old" or "uncool." Titles like the Superman line, Wonder Woman line, or Titles line that regularly function on uneven ground sales wise (more or less) would be in the very real danger of being labeled the "uncool Superman book" or the "old Wonder Woman book." Plus, there's the very real possibility of "Shock Value: The Comic Line" similar to how the Ultimate universe went down in its efforts to go further and further being the simple twist that Bendis and Millar put on them. That's not even taking into account how other creators might potentially feel similar to Mr. Busiek above.

    In a perfect world, none of that stuff happens and everything works out great, but that's not the world we currently inhabit.
    I liked how different Captain Conservative was compared to the more Liberal Avengers Cap. He was still Captain America just different and People dug it. Meanwhile you had the Millennial Liberal New 52 Superman vs His more Yuppie Conservative Post Crisis self and people could Not handle that. He was still Supes just less buttoned down and mild mannered as Clark. I gravitated to New 52 Supes cause at times Post Crises Supes could be a real ******* something I never got with his New 52 self. If written today New 52 Clark would have started a TYT style Network instead of a Blog on the DCU's Youtube equivalent putting him in line with his Pre-Crises new anchor self.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I think the separate Earth is a fine solution, and for a lot more reasons than just this. In fact SM/WW is probably on the lower end of the list of why the second Earth makes all the sense in the world and why I've been advocating it forever. Its ingrained in DCU lore. I wanted it pre-Flashpoint. I wanted it during the New 52 (only then it was reversed with the idea being the old history back on its own Earth), and I want it now that the main Earth has switched back (this time with the reboot scenario on the new Earth).


    Not entirely accurate. The New 52 certainly created more fans, but its not the New 52 that made it substantial. This is something that has had its share of fans since the pre-Crisis era, so we're talking nearly half a century here. That was a of course a very different time, but then fast forward to post-Crisis and you had the Elseworlds imprint, where it was done often, and that really made it grow in regards to "modern" fandom. All this long before the New 52. Its had a sizeable fanbase for a very long time.
    I honestly see nothing that indicates that Superman/Wonder Woman was bigger than Batman/Wonder Woman before the New 52. If anything the latter had more fans from mainstream media thanks to DCAU. Again I'm not saying that it shouldn't have fans but DC heads like Didio and Lee went the extra mile to push that ship. If they can do it for Superman/Wonder Woman then they can do it for Wonder Woman/Batman/Flash/Green Lantern. It was the baby that they threw out with the bath water eventually but it was their baby nonetheless.

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