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  1. #1
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Default Was Azrael (Jean Paul Valley) introduced for his own sake, or for KNIGHTFALL?

    The character of Azrael (Jean Paul Valley) was introduced into the DC Universe in 1992, and almost immediately after his debut in the SWORD OF AZRAEL miniseries, became one of the key figures in the KNIGHTFALL storyline. This raises the question: was Azrael introduced specifically to service the plot of KNIGHTFALL, or was he a character who would have been introduced as a new foil for Batman regardless of whether KNIGHTFALL had been published or not?

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    The character of Azrael (Jean Paul Valley) was introduced into the DC Universe in 1992, and almost immediately after his debut in the SWORD OF AZRAEL miniseries, became one of the key figures in the KNIGHTFALL storyline. This raises the question: was Azrael introduced specifically to service the plot of KNIGHTFALL, or was he a character who would have been introduced as a new foil for Batman regardless of whether KNIGHTFALL had been published or not?

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    He was specifically created to take over as Batman for a while after Batman got Baned.

    I mean, Sword Of Azrael came out less than 3 months before the Vengeance Of Bane one-shot.

    And IIRC Denny O'Neil has said as much in the afterwords of the original Knightfall trades and the first Azrael ongoing letter columns.

  3. #3
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    from Wikipedia
    "The initial idea for the character of Azrael stemmed from a two-part story idea pitched by Detective Comics writer Peter Milligan circa 1991, as he was leaving that position.After line editor Dennis O'Neil decided to expand it into a larger epic, he and the Batman line writers Chuck Dixon,Doug Moench and Alan Grant convened an authors' summit over a long weekend to flesh out the details and story points. At the same time, the Superman team was planning for a similar character-altering storyline, and neither they nor the Batman group initially had any knowledge of each other's plans.Dennis O'Neil denies the Knightfall storyline was in any way inspired by the Death of Superman and states that it was already in development by as much as three years, saying that if the Batman staff had known, the storyline would likely have been pushed down a year.

  4. #4
    Spectacular Member AzraelOnline's Avatar
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    Both Azrael AND Bane were created specifically for Knightfall.
    There's a bunch of interviews on AzraelOnline.net that will give you a lot more insight than wikipedia will.
    The sad thing is, you have the bloggers here at CBR would like to make the world believe that that is all Azrael will ever be; the guy who replaced Batman who was hated from the get go.
    Go look into it and though and you'll find Azrael was pretty loved prior to, and during his run as Batman. O'Neil did a great job fleshing that character out. He's not one dimensional like Bane
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  5. #5
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    He was meant to serve the story and he did it well. He was a great analogue to show why Bruce's methods were best even if they weren't always the easiest.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzraelOnline View Post
    Both Azrael AND Bane were created specifically for Knightfall.
    There's a bunch of interviews on AzraelOnline.net that will give you a lot more insight than wikipedia will.
    The sad thing is, you have the bloggers here at CBR would like to make the world believe that that is all Azrael will ever be; the guy who replaced Batman who was hated from the get go.
    Go look into it and though and you'll find Azrael was pretty loved prior to, and during his run as Batman. O'Neil did a great job fleshing that character out. He's not one dimensional like Bane
    I think Dixon , Beatty and Simone did a better job fleshing out Bane than O'Neal did for Azrael. Those 2 Vengeance of Bane one shots are far stronger than any Azrael material I've come across by them selves. So I disagree with your assesment.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member jb681131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armor of God View Post
    I think Dixon , Beatty and Simone did a better job fleshing out Bane than O'Neal did for Azrael. Those 2 Vengeance of Bane one shots are far stronger than any Azrael material I've come across by them selves. So I disagree with your assesment.
    True but sadly only the 2 short stories Vengeance of Bane have a great Bane. All other appearance make him a one dimentionnal vilain.
    On the other side if you've any Azrael comics you can see that he always is a facinating caracter.

  8. #8
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    Knightfall, Bane of the Demon, Secret Six, Gotham Knights and JSA Classified would beg to differ. He only became one dimensional in the New 52 but even then there were some highlights like Talon, Batgirl Futures End, Arkham War etc. Now in Rebirth he got I am Suicide and I am Bane.
    With how DC keeps throwing Azrael back in his Azbat suit it makes me question if he has any dimension other than being the guy who was Batman for a time.

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member agentofthebat's Avatar
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    I actually like Azbats. That was one of my favorite runs.

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