Cavill no longer will play Superman according to Hollywood Reporter.

[HeroVladimir93]

Despite of Superman's uncertain status in the DCEU, I think the fans of Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Shazam are having the time of their lives and celebrating that their favorite superheroes are getting movies. At the very least, we could be happy for them.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Justice League had to:
1. Introduce the Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg an explain their powers, origins, and motivations because none of them had solo movies before this
2. Introduce and explain Steppenwolf
3. Bring Superman back from the dead
4. Tell a compelling story about why this team was needed
That would be hard for a competent director to do. There’s zero chance Snyder could’ve pulled it off. It was a totally idiotic move on WB’s part to immediately jump into production before BvS was even out. Honestly they should’ve just pulled the plug once they saw the reaction to BvS and just rebooted with WW. Now they’ve got a Frankenstein monster of a franchise where some parts are dead (Superman, Cyborg), some are getting rebooted (Batman), some are actively retconing everything Snyder did (WW), and some are just continuing (Flash, Aquaman, Shazam).

And they ended up cutting the backstory/flashback/origin of the new characters to keep it for their solos and removed/reshooted scenes that could contradict the continuity of the other films in the works.
All these problems could've avoided doing the solos first.

[JAK]

"Superman was never real. Just a dream of a farmer from Kansas." "No one stays good in this world."

These lines and mood is what I call wrong for Superman himself because he allowed the darkness to consume him. It's too gloomy and pessimistic. I am fine with him having doubts and feeling anger and sadness, but this is going too far.

Yeah - there's a difference between moments of doubt and those overly-dramatic lines. The first one doesn't even ring true, unless *he's* the farmer. The second one should never come out of Superman's mouth, especially in the context of thinking of killing someone (great time to overtly introduce that whole "I learned better after killing Zod" thing Snyder mentioned in an interview and show character progression, but oh well). That's where serious becomes the movie being self-serious (imo).

I thought Man of Steel had some minor missteps, with Pa Kent being the biggest one, tho I understand him as a father, but his attitude was just too pessimistic. I don't see how it helped his son to grow up to be a big hero. Another issue I have with the movie is that I don't buy that Clark would let Pa die like that. They should have killed Pa in a different way without making Clark look bad. These are the kind of issue I understand people have with this film.

The Pa interpretation isn't my favorite, but it's an interesting take that had a lot of potential - I would've liked to have seen a bit more inspiration in quiet moments with him, but we did get some of that. And Costner sells it very well. Definitely agreed that he couldn't stand to watch Pa die - it's a scene that I get what they're going for and I just don't buy it (as I've often said, it's one of my main sticking points when the movie lost me, looking back). Others have their reasons for why it works for them, but those just don't fly with me in the slightest.

To me, MoS had a lot of minor missteps that added up to a major disappointment. I went in excited, and left sick for a week. I'm sure that *also* sounds a bit melodramatic, which I'd agree with if it weren't true. lol

Despite of Superman's uncertain status in the DCEU, I think the fans of Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Shazam are having the time of their lives and celebrating that their favorite superheroes are getting movies. At the very least, we could be happy for them.

Absolutely. I'm very happy for them. Excited for their upcoming movies, too! With Snyder and Goyer gone, I'm hoping they can keep Henry and we can see a new direction. Henry deserves a chance to really show what he can do.

[HeroVladimir93]

Yeah - there's a difference between moments of doubt and those overly-dramatic lines. The first one doesn't even ring true, unless *he's* the farmer. The second one should never come out of Superman's mouth, especially in the context of thinking of killing someone (great time to overtly introduce that whole "I learned better after killing Zod" thing Snyder mentioned in an interview and show character progression, but oh well). That's where serious becomes the movie being self-serious (imo).

To me, MoS had a lot of minor missteps that added up to a major disappointment. I went in excited, and left sick for a week. I'm sure that *also* sounds a bit melodramatic, which I'd agree with if it weren't true. lol

Absolutely. I'm very happy for them. Excited for their upcoming movies, too! With Snyder and Goyer gone, I'm hoping they can keep Henry and we can see a new direction. Henry deserves a chance to really show what he can do.

I love the new Superman films, flaws and all, but I do hold the opinion that they could have handled Superman's character arc better. I can put up with his moments of self-doubt because Clark hasn't really found his heroic motivation and because Henry always rises above the material he's given and delivers an honest performance. If the new DC movies are successful; then maybe DC can reconsider making a new Superman movie, sooner rather than later.

[JAK]

I love the new Superman films, flaws and all, but I do hold the opinion that they could have handled Superman's character arc better. I can put up with his moments of self-doubt because Clark hasn't really found his heroic motivation and because Henry always rises above the material he's given and delivers an honest performance. If the new DC movies are successful; then maybe DC can reconsider making a new Superman movie, sooner rather than later.

Here's the wild part: much of what they did isn't a bad idea on paper - it's the execution that makes it feel so off. Superman's had self-doubt before, but it's not to the crazy dour levels of dialogue we've seen, almost done in a "trying to seem quasi-pessimistic" way. One could take the structure of even BvS and make something strong, imo - it's one of those things where (again imo) the whole somehow comes off as lesser than the sum of the parts.

[Sacred Knight]

You never create a formative character arc for Superman based upon him dying. Its stupid. He doesn't have to die to be a "complete" Superman. His death has absolutely zero to do with shaping him because it didn't happen till a long time after he'd already been fully formed as a hero. His parents and innate goodness shape his values. His experience over time shapes his legacy and reputation as a hero. Not dying because a comic storyline did it over 25 years ago. Canonically he was Superman for a decade comics time when he died. Real time he was doing his thing for over 50 years before it took place. Either way you shake it, it was NOT a defining moment in his characterization. At all. The story was a defining moment in other ways, but not that way.

Trying to make that the formative character arc for the character in a series of films was dumb from the get-go. The obsession with adapting the Death storyline in a film was another of many things that really sabotaged this iteration of Superman.

[HeroVladimir93]

Here's the wild part: much of what they did isn't a bad idea on paper - it's the execution that makes it feel so off. Superman's had self-doubt before, but it's not to the crazy dour levels of dialogue we've seen, almost done in a "trying to seem quasi-pessimistic" way. One could take the structure of even BvS and make something strong, imo - it's one of those things where (again imo) the whole somehow comes off as lesser than the sum of the parts.

I admit the DCEU Superman had problems in the way he was portrayed, but I'll give credit where credit is due; the DCEU took a gamble in portraying Superman as more than just a vanilla goody-two-shoes who never gets angry or sad, never shows any emotion beyond eagerness to do the right thing at hand, is all-powerful and easily solves every problem he comes across. Since Superman is 80 years old and had multiple portrayals over the years, some originality is required. This is why I can appreciate the DCEU, the DCAU and Bendis' current comic books.

You never create a formative character arc for Superman based upon him dying. Its stupid. He doesn't have to die to be a "complete" Superman. His death has absolutely zero to do with shaping him because it didn't happen till a long time after he'd already been fully formed as a hero. His parents and innate goodness shape his values. His experience over time shapes his legacy and reputation as a hero. Not dying because a comic storyline did it over 25 years ago. Canonically he was Superman for a decade comics time when he died. Real time he was doing his thing for over 50 years before it took place. Either way you shake it, it was NOT a defining moment in his characterization. At all. The story was a defining moment in other ways, but not that way.

Trying to make that the formative character arc for the character in a series of films was dumb from the get-go. The obsession with adapting the Death storyline in a film was another of many things that really sabotaged this iteration of Superman.

At this point, The Death of Superman is the most overused Superman story arc ever. I can enjoy the story as long as it's done right, but seriously, what does it say about Superman when his most heroic and memorable moment is his death? In Infinite Crisis, Batman said that Superman's death was the last time Superman ever really inspired people. There are many stories Warner and DC can adapt to the big screen. Superman is more than his origin, his death, his marriage to Lois and his family life. He deserves better.

[Osiris-Rex]

Despite of Superman's uncertain status in the DCEU, I think the fans of Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Shazam are having the time of their lives and celebrating that their favorite superheroes are getting movies. At the very least, we could be happy for them.

And can I get a yeah for fans of Supergirl, like me. Just because you people are made at WB for not giving you a Superman movie doesn't mean you have to crap all over Supergirl like some people are doing. It's not her fault.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm not seeing a lot of crapping on Supergirl. I have made the statement that she's not Superman. And she isn't. But that doesn't mean I don't like her and wouldn't like to see her succeed in a film. Because I am and I would. But she is no replacement for Superman in a DCU, and if that's their goal then I definitely have issues with that. Just wanting to give her a project though I have no issue with at all and would like to see.

[Osiris-Rex]

I'm not seeing a lot of crapping on Supergirl. I have made the statement that she's not Superman. And she isn't. But that doesn't mean I don't like her and wouldn't like to see her succeed in a film. Because I am and I would. But she is no replacement for Superman, and if that's their goal then I definitely have issues with that.

I guess I watch too many YouTube videos. I have seen people stick their finger down their throat or make fart noises at the thought of a Supergirl movie. And a lot of that is born of the resentment that Supergirl gets a
movie before Man of Steel 2.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Well, I think some fans is also pissed that Supergirl is currently set to fight Brainiac in her movie.

[DochaDocha]

Well, I think some fans is also pissed that Supergirl is currently set to fight Brainiac in her movie.

For real? Yeah, no offense to Supergirl or her fans, but we've been freaking waiting years for a Superman/Brainiac clash on the big screen, and they're going to utilize the guy this way?

If WB ain't gonna respect Superman, how can you expect audiences to do the same?

[Last Son of Krypton]

For real? Yeah, no offense to Supergirl or her fans, but we've been freaking waiting years for a Superman/Brainiac clash on the big screen, and they're going to utilize the guy this way?

If WB ain't gonna respect Superman, how can you expect audiences to do the same?

Yeah, Brainiac is the planned villain according to the same people that hinted months ago that a Supergirl movie is in the works and that Cavill is likely done as Superman because of the negotiations drama.

[DochaDocha]

Yeah, Brainiac is the planned villain according to the same people that hinted months ago that a Supergirl movie is in the works and that Cavill is likely done as Superman because of the negotiations drama.

FM[Superman Fan]L.

[manofsteel1979]

For real? Yeah, no offense to Supergirl or her fans, but we've been freaking waiting years for a Superman/Brainiac clash on the big screen, and they're going to utilize the guy this way?

If WB ain't gonna respect Superman, how can you expect audiences to do the same?

That's where it loses me too. I've been waiting for almost 20 years to see Brainiac on the big screen to face off against Superman. I like Kara. I have nothing against her having her own movie, but not at the expense of Kal.