What did you think of "Back to Basics"?

[2Thumbs]

Peter and MJ are back together and you still call it garbage based on the fact they're still not married?

A bit much, but you do you.

I still think they're going to undo OMD or at the very least acknowledge it's effects on things.

They're back together, yes, but the relationship is built on lies. Furthermore, the troubles that they overcame to be together, the on again off again they've been referrencing for the past decade, all happened off screen, so there's reason to be invested. Why care about people getting together when you haven't seen what they went through to get there? We cared the first time because we saw what they went through to finally find each other, and the work they put into the relationship.

Marvel and Spencer are laughing at us, cashing in on nostalgia for MJ/Pete while not putting in the work to actually make the relationship rewarding. I'd rather have MJ gone for good than see this debased and tainted money grab.

[Miles To Go]

They're back together, yes, but the relationship is built on lies.

This is an exaggeration, it's almost as if you haven't paid attention to MJ's appearances in the book since OMD and prior to Spencer's run.

We've combed over the reasons MJ went back to Peter even before she gave her reasons in Issue Five in several other discussion threads.

You'll also find most people don't care about the hows and why they're back together, so long as they are. The very reasons they were apart were themselves a lie and the work of Mephisto.

Seems like you just don't want to be happy.

As for nostalgia for Peter/MJ...I wouldn't call it that. It can't be nostalgia if it's never gone away.

[2Thumbs]

This is an exaggeration, it's almost as if you haven't paid attention to MJ's appearances in the book since OMD and prior to Spencer's run.

We've combed over the reasons MJ went back to Peter even before she gave her reasons in Issue Five in several other discussion threads.

You'll also find most people don't care about the hows and why they're back together, so long as they are. The very reasons they were apart were themselves a lie and the work of Mephisto.

Seems like you just don't want to be happy.

As for nostalgia for Peter/MJ...I wouldn't call it that. It can't be nostalgia if it's never gone away.

They haven't been together for a decade.

[Mister Mets]

They're back together, yes, but the relationship is built on lies. Furthermore, the troubles that they overcame to be together, the on again off again they've been referrencing for the past decade, all happened off screen, so there's reason to be invested. Why care about people getting together when you haven't seen what they went through to get there? We cared the first time because we saw what they went through to finally find each other, and the work they put into the relationship.

Marvel and Spencer are laughing at us, cashing in on nostalgia for MJ/Pete while not putting in the work to actually make the relationship rewarding. I'd rather have MJ gone for good than see this debased and tainted money grab.

How do you know that Marvel and Spencer aren't putting in the work to make the relationship rewarding without actually reading the story?

[2Thumbs]

How do you know that Marvel and Spencer aren't putting in the work to make the relationship rewarding without actually reading the story?

1) We didn't see ANY of the supposed 'past' relationship that made their current relationship the way it is. After OMD, they basically said 'So this happened, then this happened... etc.' We didn't see this on again off again relationship that everyone remembers, so we don't get a sense of satisfaction that it's on again.

2) We don't know this MJ. At all. She's barely shown up in the past decade. Her personality and histort are different from the one I grew up with. She's practically a different person.

3) There was no preamble. They just 'got together.' Again. Five issues later, we get a reason, but it would have been better to build the relationship up, showing MJ fighting with herself over her love for Pete and hatred for Spidey, then finally deciding that she loved him more.

Like I said, this is nothing more than a cash grab to promote interest in Spencer's run. They're trying to bring back all the people alienated by OMD with this pandering 'relationship.' It's blatantly obvious, underhanded, and disgusting. Remember, Pete/MJ wasn't even going to be in his pilot originally, till Quesadilla told him he could. Everyone's running around hoping for a resolution to OMD and getting their memories back, but any resolution is going to be hollow at best.

Say they do get their memories back. So what? The Powers that Be have decreed that Pete/MJ can't be married. Ever. So even if they get their memories back, they'll just continue as they have until Spencer gets bored and breaks them up again.

[Prof. Warren]

1) We didn't see ANY of the supposed 'past' relationship that made their current relationship the way it is. After OMD, they basically said 'So this happened, then this happened... etc.' We didn't see this on again off again relationship that everyone remembers, so we don't get a sense of satisfaction that it's on again.

Anyone who read Dan Slott's run would see that that Peter and MJ's history continued after OMD.

Every time she showed up, there would be a question of whether their relationship would rekindle.

And anyone who's been pining for them to get back together all that time feels plenty satisfied, I imagine.

2) We don't know this MJ. At all. She's barely shown up in the past decade. Her personality and histort are different from the one I grew up with. She's practically a different person.

I don't know what MJ you're talking about but I've been reading since about '73 or '74 and she seems exactly like the MJ I've been reading all that time.

3) There was no preamble. They just 'got together.' Again. Five issues later, we get a reason, but it would have been better to build the relationship up, showing MJ fighting with herself over her love for Pete and hatred for Spidey, then finally deciding that she loved him more.

I can't roll my eyes at this enough. The last ten years were the preamble.

If you need to be walked through every step of MJ's thought process, I wonder if you've ever been in a relationship that resumed after a break-up.

Sometimes, two people are on the same page but they just need the other one to say the words to reciprocate. That's what happened here.

It's not hard at all, with the history between them, to believe that once Peter said he wanted to be with her that she would answer in kind.

Like I said, this is nothing more than a cash grab to promote interest in Spencer's run. They're trying to bring back all the people alienated by OMD with this pandering 'relationship.' It's blatantly obvious, underhanded, and disgusting. Remember, Pete/MJ wasn't even going to be in his pilot originally, till Quesadilla told him he could. Everyone's running around hoping for a resolution to OMD and getting their memories back, but any resolution is going to be hollow at best.

Spencer has said that the only reason he didn't initially include MJ is because he believed that he wasn't allowed to. And, as he said, once he knew he that could write Peter and MJ together, his plans for the book improved by 100%. MJ was the piece of the puzzle that was missing for him so it's not just some last minute toss on.

Say they do get their memories back. So what? The Powers that Be have decreed that Pete/MJ can't be married. Ever. So even if they get their memories back, they'll just continue as they have until Spencer gets bored and breaks them up again.

Or, they'll just stay together and not be married. There's a lot to be mined in this newly restored relationship. Doubtful that Spencer would get bored with it any time soon.

[2Thumbs]

Anyone who read Dan Slott's run would see that that Peter and MJ's history continued after OMD.

Every time she showed up, there would be a question of whether their relationship would rekindle.

And anyone who's been pining for them to get back together all that time feels plenty satisfied, I imagine.

You're right. That question has always come up... and each time MJ led him on then denied him. And most of the 'will they/won't they' was done by READERS, not the characters, but whatever.

I don't know what MJ you're talking about but I've been reading since about '73 or '74 and she seems exactly like the MJ I've been reading all that time.

Really? The MJ I know wouldn't have broken up with him to begin with. The MJ I know would have toughed it out... like she always did. Even if she didn't, she would have left him alone to keep herself from hurting him again and again. Instead, she played with his emotions for a decade, sending him packing each and every time.

I can't roll my eyes at this enough. The last ten years were the preamble.

If you need to be walked through every step of MJ's thought process, I wonder if you've ever been in a relationship that resumed after a break-up.

Sometimes, two people are on the same page but they just need the other one to say the words to reciprocate. That's what happened here.

It's not hard at all, with the history between them, to believe that once Peter said he wanted to be with her that she would answer in kind.

How is her showing up once every couple years and rejecting him while referencing a history we know nothing about be 'preamble' for a relationship lol?

You reference the history between them, but we have no idea what that history is, except a vague "on again off again" that we never saw. What happened in this history? We don't know, which is my entire freaking point.

Or, they'll just stay together and not be married. There's a lot to be mined in this newly restored relationship. Doubtful that Spencer would get bored with it any time soon.

Even if he doesn't, the relationship WILL end at some point, either by Spencer or the writer after him. Marriage gave the relationship a sense of permenancy. Now, we know that it's just a temporary money grab.

What new stories are there to be mined? MJ and Pete have DONE the dating thing before ad nauseum. Wasn't the whole point of OMD was because they ran out of stories for MJ/Pete?


And you're a fool if you think OMD will be resolved. Marvel hasn't even mentioned it for a decade. They're trying to pretend that this AU fanfic they developed was the real history all along.

[WebSlingWonder]

Why is it that whenever something positive happens in a comic book, someone always has to make it look like a bad thing? Like, seriously? Come on.

[2Thumbs]

Why is it that whenever something positive happens in a comic book, someone always has to make it look like a bad thing? Like, seriously? Come on.

Is it a good thing, though?

[Inversed]

Really? The MJ I know wouldn't have broken up with him to begin with. The MJ I know would have toughed it out... like she always did. Even if she didn't, she would have left him alone to keep herself from hurting him again and again. Instead, she played with his emotions for a decade, sending him packing each and every time.

You do remember the beginning of J. Michael Strayznski's run, which started with them effectively broken up, while still married. It's nothing new.

Also outside of the first part of Go Down Swinging, she's never played with his emotions. Anytime she's interacted with him before it's either been to just be friends or not to rekindle a relationship, she never led him on through anything.

[Miles To Go]

You do remember the beginning of J. Michael Strayznski's run, which started with them effectively broken up, while still married.

To be fair, JMS was working with an unpleasant status quo and did his best to remedy it by having MJ reveal she only left Peter because she felt unneeded in the relationship, once Peter assured her she was valuable to him, she came back. The exact same trick Spencer used. I think if Peter had the kind of nerve he had in "Back to Basics" that he lacked in "Go Down Swinging", that evening with MJ in the latter would have had a different outcome.

[WebSlingWonder]

Is it a good thing, though?

Taken by virtue of the story, yes. It's a good thing that Peter finally has a stable relationship with Mary Jane once more. That is purely based on this one story. I understand that it's frustrating to read stories where the ending may be predetermined, but that's the nature of these things. If that's not your cup of tea, then maybe it's not for you.

I get it. It's not as fun. We get invested, we get attached. And sometimes, not everyone shares our love for the story/characters as we want them. But we can't let that be our undoing.

[Inversed]

To be fair, JMS was working with an unpleasant status quo and did his best to remedy it by having MJ reveal she only left Peter because she felt unneeded in the relationship, once Peter assured her she was valuable to him, she came back. The exact same trick Spencer used. I think if Peter had the kind of nerve he had in "Back to Basics" that he lacked in "Go Down Swinging", that evening with MJ in the latter would have had a different outcome.

Of course, and that story did turn out really well, so it all worked out. And I still feel like that moment in "Go Down Swinging" would've at least made more sense if he decided to run off to be Spider-Man and she gets upset but then maybe regrets it. Just getting upset over him not doing anything except having the suit on is confusing and dumb.

[Prof. Warren]

You're right. That question has always come up... and each time MJ led him on then denied him. And most of the 'will they/won't they' was done by READERS, not the characters, but whatever.

Point being, the potential for a reunion was always there. Peter and MJ never got back together in those stories because the writer wasn't interested in having them do so. But nothing about those stories negated the possibility of romantic reconciliation.

Really? The MJ I know wouldn't have broken up with him to begin with. The MJ I know would have toughed it out... like she always did. Even if she didn't, she would have left him alone to keep herself from hurting him again and again. Instead, she played with his emotions for a decade, sending him packing each and every time.

MJ wasn't playing with anyone's emotions anymore than Peter was playing with hers.

These aren't real people. They're fictional, so they only do what the writers decide they want them to do.

They weren't together as a couple simply because the writer didn't want them to be one, not because anyone was playing games.

But they were always in a place as characters where it would be easy to restart their romance, if a writer decided to.

How is her showing up once every couple years and rejecting him while referencing a history we know nothing about be 'preamble' for a relationship lol?

I'm not sure what you mean by "referencing a history we know nothing about", unless you think we don't know anything about their pre-OMD history anymore.

You reference the history between them, but we have no idea what that history is, except a vague "on again off again" that we never saw. What happened in this history? We don't know, which is my entire freaking point.

If you're talking about post-OMD, we saw them continue to be close friends during Slott's run.

Spencer decided that they should go back to being more than that. It's not that hard.

Couples do separate and reunite all the time. Sometimes getting back together is as easy as someone saying they miss the other person.

Even if he doesn't, the relationship WILL end at some point, either by Spencer or the writer after him. Marriage gave the relationship a sense of permenancy. Now, we know that it's just a temporary money grab.

"Money grab" and "cash grab" are terms that fans need to stop using. Every comic is meant to entice readers into buying it. They're all cash grabs.

And will the relationship end at some point? I don't know. And really, who cares?

If anyone thinks there's any such thing as permanence in comics, they're delusional. Peter and MJ were married for twenty years. Then they weren't. Simple as that.

In comics, things can change on a dime. Enjoy the stories you're reading at the moment and don't worry about what will or won't last.

Having Peter and MJ get married again and erasing OMD would not ensure the permanence of their relationship anymore than having them just continue to date.

What new stories are there to be mined? MJ and Pete have DONE the dating thing before ad nauseum. Wasn't the whole point of OMD was because they ran out of stories for MJ/Pete?

No, the point was that editorial didn't want a married Peter Parker.

And as for what new stories there are for Peter and MJ as a couple, that's up to the writer to decide.

I imagine that Spencer has long term plans for them. I also imagine that it will involve many romantic ups and downs.

And you're a fool if you think OMD will be resolved. Marvel hasn't even mentioned it for a decade. They're trying to pretend that this AU fanfic they developed was the real history all along.

I'd be a fool if I actually cared if OMD was resolved.

It was a decade ago and it's a non-issue to me.

I'd also be a fool if I got weirdly angry about comic book stories, so I don't.

I'm not waiting for OMD to be resolved. I'm also not worried about whether Peter and MJ will break up eventually.

At the moment, I'm simply enjoying what Spencer is doing with ASM and will continue to do so.

[Miles To Go]

If anyone thinks there's any such thing as permanence in comics, they're delusional. Peter and MJ were married for twenty years. Then they weren't. Simple as that.

It's sometimes easy to understand why some people expect permanence, especially with the likes of the Richards remaining married (but the theme of the FF is about family anyway), Peter and MJ also remain married in ongoing continuities separate from 616 and thus some readers fail to understand the logic in keeping them seperate in the mainline stuff. It's why I regard OMD as meaning very little in all the years it's had an 'impact' on the franchise. We've never actually went a year without Peter and MJ being married.

If people are dead set on refusing to invest in the two being together again...then we really have lost them for keeps, because even if the marriage is restored, they'll just be in perpetual "it'll never last" mode. That's why it's always handy to use tricks like the one in "Book of Peter", which reveals 616 Peter and MJ make it through all their hardships and raise a family. Until I see that flash forward contradicted, I see plenty of reason to invest, as it's a nice way of assuring readers that one day (even an as-yet unattainable one) it'll all work out.

Look at Bat/Cat as another example. While it's still an ongoing story, Tom King was smart enough to write a flash forward story that may or may not be contradicted later, which shows Bruce and Selina get married and grow old together.