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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Jeez, when did he poop in your cornflakes?
    Why say something like this on a public forum? It is not even relevant to the thread, or any thread. Address the conversation or don't. There is no need for the crudeness and it doesn't add anything to the discussion


    Of course Cavill should be grateful for the opportunity to play Superman...up to a point.
    I don't care if he does or if he doesn't. He is just an actor and not part of the creative team that forms Superman's legacy or future stories. His opinions are irrelevant to anything other than the promotion of his own career and his opinion of no great gravitas than a random movie goer... or perhaps less so. The stunt coordinator and casting agent also have opinions. Lets spend days examining those.

    I'd love to know why you think he should be grateful for being the face of Superman in two movies that were critically toxic and lead to WB's attempts at a shared superhero universe being considered a joke, and even the comparatively much better MOS was still a rocky start.


    That is an opinion but if he doesn't want the job, he in no way has to take the job.

    Wanting a proper solo sequel and more creative control is understandable,
    No it isn't. He has no qualifications to do that at all.

    these idiots in charge clearly don't know what they're doing. This is also his chosen career, asking for money as an incentive for a job with not much pros isn't a wrong action.

    I also love that you think a new actor or the character will suddenly be treated better than what we've had so far. let's be real here, that ain't happening.

    Will be treated better or play the part better? There are thousands of actors that can play the part ...
    Last edited by mrbrklyn; 09-17-2018 at 11:35 AM.

  2. #122
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Of course desiring some creative control is understandable. You seem to be operating under a salty pretense that he's acting like he's owed it or something, though. All that we're seeing is an actor desiring something in regards to a role going forward and trying to negotiate for it with his agent. IOW, completely standard Hollywood practice. WB's not biting. From a business perspective, perfectly valid actions on both sides.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Of course desiring some creative control is understandable. You seem to be operating under a salty pretense that he's acting like he's owed it or something, though. All that we're seeing is an actor desiring something in regards to a role going forward and trying to negotiate for it with his agent. IOW, completely standard Hollywood practice. WB's not biting. From a business perspective, perfectly valid actions on both sides.
    James Wolk can play the part better

  4. #124
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    Why say something like this on a public forum? It is not even relevant to the thread, or any thread. Address the conversation or don't. There is no need for the cudeness and it doesn't add anything to the discussion
    I'm addressing your weirdly hostile attitude towards some celebrity you don't even know. Saying you would have paid him only $50 or he should just get bit parts in musicals from now on are hilariously OTT. You're on a public forum, expect a response. As SK said, you seem overly salty about what Cavill is asking for.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    I don't care if he does or if he doesn't. He is just an actor and not part of the creative team that forms Superman's legacy or future stories. His opinions are irrelevant to anything other than the promotion of his own career and his opinion of no great gravitas than a random movie goer... or perhaps less so. The stunt coordinator and casting agent also have opinions. Lets spend days examining those.
    If he wants to play Superman in his career, he's allowed to have opinions about the shitshow being run.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    That is an opinion but if he doesn't want the job, he in no way has to take the job.
    He very clearly wants the job, but wants it under certain conditions. In light of what we've seen happen and the ideas they are currently spit balling, he is in his right to do so.



    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    No it isn't. He has no qualifications to do that at all.
    WB has already shown their staggering lack of qualifications, allowing him some creative input couldn't possibly lead to worse results than what we've seen so far. The extent of his creative input would probably be to shape ideas with directors and script writers who would of course do the lion's share of bringing the story to life. And odds are he gives more of a crap about Superman than anybody at the studio.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    Will be treated better or play the part better? There are thousands of actors that can play the part ...
    Of course there are, but don't expect any of them to do better or much better if given similar material.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    James Wolk can play the part better
    Good for him. Good luck to him if he ever has to work with WB though.

  5. #125
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Absolutely agree 100 percent. I defended it at the time because i thought for sure the ramifications of that act would reverberate through the Superman trilogy we all thought we were going to get. That's why i don't buy the recent narrative change that the game plan when they made MOS was to jump into building Justice League. I think the plan was a Superman trilogy but that changed when MOS didn't break a billion and WB put pressure on Snyder to steer his sequel into the direction we got.
    I definitely agree; the plan for Superman and the MoS movie(s) did seem to change once the box office rolled in. WB and DC have been terribly reactionary in recent years, and I think they've done tons of damage to themselves trying to change their plans partway in to respond to critics.

    And this is the problem. Its because of this that it is hard to defend the killing of zod now.
    I still (obviously) defend Man of Steel. On it's own, it's a great film. It only really suffers when you put it in the context of the wider DCEU and the failures of BvS and JL.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  6. #126
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Hm. Would the Justice League performance be attributed to reacting too heavily to Marvel, or not enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Jeez, when did he poop in your cornflakes?
    these idiots in charge clearly don't know what they're doing
    Well for one thing, someone did pick Henry Cavill. There had to be a time where his name wasn't on a table or any sort of given. I don't think anyone, Cavill or otherwise, meant to poop in any corn flakes.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm addressing your weirdly hostile attitude towards some celebrity you don't even know.
    It doesn't address anything written by anyone, and wether I know the actor or not has no bearing on what I wrote. Nor was what I wrote weird.

    Saying you would have paid him only $50 or he should just get bit parts in musicals from now on are hilariously OTT. You're on a public forum, expect a response. As SK said, you seem overly salty about what Cavill is asking for.
    That was $50/hour. It is a good salary.


    If he wants to play Superman in his career, he's allowed to have opinions about the shitshow being run.
    Except his opinion is irrelevant and Warner Bros aren't a "shitshow". That is your opinion. I have no idea what you base it on, but they do own the Superman Franchise and pay people to make these decisions. This actor is just hired help for acting. They can get anyone else to do it.


    He very clearly wants the job, but wants it under certain conditions.
    What he wants only matters to him.

    In light of what we've seen happen and the ideas they are currently spit balling, he is in his right to do so.
    Right to him but nobody else really cares what he thinks. Nobody pays him for what he thinks about Superman and he has no qualifications to give any opinions that matter.
    If I am Warner, I would not hire him.

    WB has already shown their staggering lack of qualifications,
    This is where the conversation sort of ends. They have the only qualification that really matters. They own the trademark and substantial copyrights. It is the only qualification that matters.

    If other superman creators had opinions, that might matter. Fan reaction, in context, can matter. A hired actor ?? That is one opinion that is meaningless.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Good for him. Good luck to him if he ever has to work with WB though.

    No that might be perceived as a weird and irrational dislike for someone.... really.

    I hate Warner Brothers for all kinds of political issues having to do with copyright law, and abuse of libraries, but if you think that WB's can't find quality people to work with them and produce a successful string of films, that would not be a good bet.

  9. #129
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Hm. Would the Justice League performance be attributed to reacting too heavily to Marvel, or not enough?
    My unprofessional opinion is "neither."

    I think WB's woes are of their own making. Man of Steel was divisive, and WB doubled down on the wrong elements with BvS and threw Superman under the bus in an effort to catch up to the competition, because for some weird reason DC suddenly needed a shared universe despite its films from Superman 1 to Dark Knight all doing just fine on their own.

    Fans lost faith in the brand. MoS got mixed reviews and BvS and Squad were largely panned, and here's WB still making many of the same mistakes, trying to force a shared universe they didn't really need, and so focused on imitating the MCU structure they forgot to make people care about the individual characters.

    And then when JL finally rolled out, it tried really hard to be Whedon's Avengers and felt like a square peg being forced into a round hole; it didn't mesh or fit thematically or tonally with MoS, BvS, SS, or even WW. It tried to be fun and stupid, but just ended up being stupid. And most people didn't even seem to notice because they had already washed their hands of the whole mess.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #130
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Well for one thing, someone did pick Henry Cavill. There had to be a time where his name wasn't on a table or any sort of given. I don't think anyone, Cavill or otherwise, meant to poop in any corn flakes.
    Heh, got me there I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    It doesn't address anything written by anyone, and wether I know the actor or not has no bearing on what I wrote. Nor was what I wrote weird.
    It addresses your seeming saltiness towards Cavill, which seems unwarranted. I think that should be clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    That was $50/hour. It is a good salary.
    I know you meant $50/hour. You also said he should have been paid less. Why is that even your concern to begin with?


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    Except his opinion is irrelevant and Warner Bros aren't a "shitshow". That is your opinion. I have no idea what you base it on, but they do own the Superman Franchise and pay people to make these decisions. This actor is just hired help for acting. They can get anyone else to do it.
    I base it on actual reality, and I'm far from the only one doing so. WB's reputation as far as superhero films go in the current era is a joke aside from WW, and all their films are critically toxic. They are pretty much ending their shared universe experiment and shuffling things around with a direction. If you think otherwise, more power to you, but things would be going differently if it wasn't a shitshow.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    What he wants only matters to him.
    Well it's his job and his life, so...


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    Right to him but nobody else really cares what he thinks. Nobody pays him for what he thinks about Superman and he has no qualifications to give any opinions that matter.
    Many of the fans care about what he thinks, Hell all of us are probably less qualified than he is as we do not work in the film industry, and here we are offering our opinions anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    If I am Warner, I would not hire him.
    Too late.



    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    This is where the conversation sort of ends. They have the only qualification that really matters. They own the trademark and substantial copyrights. It is the only qualification that matters.
    Yes, and they've shown repeatedly that they don't care about the character as much as they should. There qualifications matter, but that doesn't automatically equal a good thing. As we've seen, or have you not noticed that BvS and JL are not very good? That was all them baby.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    No that might be perceived as a weird and irrational dislike for someone.... really.
    I never said I dislike him. I don't even know who that is, I have no opinion whatsoever. I was commenting that WB will likely not treat anyone better.
    I certainly never said he should be paid less at whatever he is doing or his opinion is meaningless, which you've said about Cavill.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Many of the fans care about what he thinks, Hell all of us are probably less qualified than he is as we do not work in the film industry, and here we are offering our opinions anyway.
    The fans are more qualified than Cavill, and are far more important.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post

    Yes, and they've shown repeatedly that they don't care about the character as much as they should. There qualifications matter, but that doesn't automatically equal a good thing. As we've seen, or have you not noticed that BvS and JL are not very good? That was all them baby.
    I had no problem with the movies, and if you didn't like them, then don't watch them. But that doesn't support the idea that they don't care about their characters. That is false. They do care. Their livelihoods depend on it.

  13. #133
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    I base it on actual reality, and I'm far from the only one doing so. WB's reputation as far as superhero films go in the current era is a joke aside from WW, and all their films are critically toxic. They are pretty much ending their shared universe experiment and shuffling things around with a direction. If you think otherwise, more power to you, but things would be going differently if it wasn't a shitshow.
    That is all puffery. I would tell you that you should try to find activities that wind you up less then how you perceive Warner Brothers reputation in Superman movies. Don't think that your opinion is supported by everyone else. Don't even worry about that. It doesn't help your arguments or give you more attention. "Toxic" is a very strong word and unwarranted. "shitshow" is a term I strongly urge you to stop using in any context.

    It is fair to criticize how you think the WB process might have produced movies you don't like. But nothing an actor thinks about superman either supports your position. He is just the stupid actor. If he did a Jack Nicolson performance, eh ... that might have given him more weight. But this guy is just another in a long line of Superman comics actors.

  14. #134
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
    The fans are more qualified than Cavill, and are far more important.
    Both are important and relevant; he is the current face of Superman. He has a right to his opinion just like fans have a right to their opinion. Noone can force us to keep supporting WB if we don't like what they sell. Many love Cavill in the role. Real love and appreciation because he is part of this fantasy and journey. Of course WB are the decision makers, but we are not sheep who accept anything they throw at us. Maybe some are, but I'm not. If you think they always do everything right for the characters, we wouldn't be where we are..

  15. #135
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    They aren't honest with themselves and are poor at planning.

    ANY Superman movie is going to make more money than it costs to produce.

    They should develop a good story and a good trilogy plan. Find an actor, sit down and be honest about "this is where we want to go with this series" and then stick to that actor and that progression.

    There just seems to be a lot of "we'll see how this does" with superhero films. They aren't amazing dramas...they're money making fluff. People want to see Superman using his powers and doing cool things and they'll be happy.

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