Marvel Cancel "The Vision"

[Drops Of Venus]

The level of unprofessionalism and incompetence required to complete only four issues in two years is breathtaking. In an industiy that routinely delivers monthly books for literally dozens to titles.

Maybe Marvel's "creatives" should stay the heck off of social media and actually...I dunno...work or something...

Maybe you should read the EW article just a few posts ago in which she explains the timeline for the work on The Vision instead of calling people unprofessional and incompetent without knowing the details. The official work on the book began late last year, and they had been working non-stop ever since. It was a 6-issue mini and they had most of it done already, two months before the first issue was even out, which suggests that deadline was not going to be a problem.

When criticized for retconning Mockingbird into a cheater and murderer, she hid behind the barely-present harassment.

Retconned into a cheater, yes. Into a murderer, no. The scene in which Phantom Rider died was never retconned. Everything that happened there is still canon. Why is it so hard for people to understand that? The guy was trying to kill her and she didn't help him up when he was falling down. If you consider that murder, then she was always a murderer. The retcon didn't change that.

[dimo1]

As nobody, except the involved parties, knows anything specific, it might be wise to wait and see how it plays out.

[PhantomStranger]

Damn, feels like your taking this personally.

How is it her fault again?

Pretty sure theirs a lot of stuff that actually goes into creating a comic, but nah, lets call her "unprofessional" and "incompetent"...

The industry routinely cranks out an issue a month for dozens of titles. Don't give me that "it takes time" BS.

[Prof. Warren]

The industry routinely cranks out an issue a month for dozens of titles. Don't give me that "it takes time" BS.

Every book has its own schedule.

If someone's working on a mini that doesn't have a hard release date yet, it's not as imperative to crank out issues with the same urgency of a monthly book.

As we really don't know any inside details of why this book was cancelled, it's unfair to say that it was due to any lack of professionalism.

Could have been because of any number of or because of any combination of issues that none of us are aware of.

[UltimateTy]

I feel like this was handled poorly by both sides. Marvel could have ended it earlier if they were going to cancel it and Chelsea is overreacting a bit on twitter especially with that tweet of being scared of Marvel

[Triniking1234]

They'll give her more work so don't worry about her behaviour.

[Daniel22]

This is not what the retcon did and I wish people would stop spreading this misinterpretation that pins the blame on the woman for reacting to an abusive relationship. Let's get one thing straight: the only thing Chelsea Cain retconned was the consensual aspect of the relationship, meaning Bobbi wasn't forced into the relationship with Phantom Rider like we thought she was. Everything else still happened and is still canon, which means that his abusive behavior towards her is still true. He believed he was the one for her and if he couldn't have her, no one else would. He threatened to kill her during that cliff scene. That is more than enough to explain why she let him die; if she let him live, she might've been dead. This idea that a woman suddenly is a psychopath because she didn't want to let an abusive man ruin her life is ridiculous. You can argue that it was morally wrong for her to let someone die when she could've helped them, but acting like she didn't have a genuine reason to fear for her life and want him to be gone from it is just dishonest and unfair. It's like saying that a woman doesn't have the right to defend herself from an abusive boyfriend/fiance/husband just because the relationship started out with consent. Consent doesn't mean submission. Consent doesn't mean she had to be ok with him abusing and threatening to kill her. This mindset that Bobbi became the villain of the story because she consented to the relationship is extremely problematic and it's a huge part of the reason why so many women in real life are afraid to come forward and report stories of domestic violence, as they are often blamed and shamed for ''letting those men into their lives''.

It's been said before and will be said again: We really need a thumbs up thingy here. Thanks for (again) talking about what ACTUALLY HAPPENED on the page and not just jumping on the completely false narrative that has followed this story since it came out. That T Shirt Bobbi wore apparently hurt some people so badly that it even damaged their reading comprehension. Although the more likely scenario is that the most upset people never read the book in the first place and just saw a target for their frustration.

[Mike_Murdock]

Absent the mindcontrol, was the relationship abusive prior to his death? I guess he was gaslighting her. It's been awhile since I read the issue, so I might be misremembering something.

[gurkle]

The problem with the Mockingbird retcon is that she told everyone that he mind-controlled her into loving him and that's why she was angry and afraid enough to let him fall. Trying to change it to a consensual relationship turns her into a liar who tried to turn the Phantom Rider's friends against him by telling them he raped her, then lied to the Avengers to cover up her affair.

I know continuity is done in broad strokes nowadays but it was inevitable that people who read the original story would dislike the new one for that reason. The editor (who is no longer at Marvel and went back to DC shortly after) did not do a good job there. Not everything has to line up exactly but it simply made no sense at all to anyone who had read the original comics.

[Muffin Crud]

The problem with the Mockingbird retcon is that she told everyone that he mind-controlled her into loving him and that's why she was angry and afraid enough to let him fall. Trying to change it to a consensual relationship turns her into a liar who tried to turn the Phantom Rider's friends against him by telling them he raped her, then lied to the Avengers to cover up her affair.

I know continuity is done in broad strokes nowadays but it was inevitable that people who read the original story would dislike the new one for that reason. The editor (who is no longer at Marvel and went back to DC shortly after) did not do a good job there. Not everything has to line up exactly but it simply made no sense at all to anyone who had read the original comics.

Exactly.

I looooove Cain’s writing, I really do, but the way issue 8 was handled was terribly misguided and offensive.

[Drops Of Venus]

They'll give her more work so don't worry about her behaviour.

Well, it's not just about what Marvel wants. I'm sure they would've given Matt Fraction more work too, but he simply never came back after something similar happened to him.

The problem with the Mockingbird retcon is that she told everyone that he mind-controlled her into loving him and that's why she was angry and afraid enough to let him fall. Trying to change it to a consensual relationship turns her into a liar who tried to turn the Phantom Rider's friends against him by telling them he raped her, then lied to the Avengers to cover up her affair.

I know continuity is done in broad strokes nowadays but it was inevitable that people who read the original story would dislike the new one for that reason. The editor (who is no longer at Marvel and went back to DC shortly after) did not do a good job there. Not everything has to line up exactly but it simply made no sense at all to anyone who had read the original comics.

I do agree that Bobbi lying about being raped became a problem with the retcon, and I wish Chelsea had addressed her motivations for doing that in the book. Maybe we would've learned more about her POV if the book hadn't been cancelled and she had to cram everything in that single issue, or maybe the initial intention was for the retcon to be bigger than just that and also change the events, making it so Bobbi never falsely accused the guy. As it stands (with her accusing him), I have my own headcanon that she was ashamed of cheating on Clint and, since Phantom Rider turned out to be a creep anyway, she figured she would throw him under the bus regarding how their relationship started, which was most definitely wrong and I don't mind people judging her for that. What bothers me is the continuous narrative that she had no reason to let him die and she is a psychopath because of that. Regardless of how their relationship started and how wrong it was, she had every reason to defend herself from him once he decided to violently take away her choice of not being with him anymore.

[comicscollector]

I get that the writer is annoyed by that,but with the way all the marvel characters share the same continuity there is always going to be stories that do not work with the editorial plans for the characters.I am sure that for DC this happens as well.

[Drops Of Venus]

I get that the writer is annoyed by that,but with the way all the marvel characters share the same continuity there is always going to be stories that do not work with the editorial plans for the characters.I am sure that for DC this happens as well.

I think it's less about stories not working out and more about how they decided that the story didn't work out after they were already so far into the project. It's about the time and effort the creative team put into a book that's never gonna see the light of day. I think it would've been a lot more understandable, even for Chelsea and Marc (people seem to forget he was writing that too), if they had turned their pitch down one or two years ago, before they started actively working on the scripts, getting an artist, inking, coloring, etc. That's A LOT of work that was just discarded, and time was not an excuse, because they had plenty of that to plan things out.

[anyajenkins]

One or two years ago the story was probably fine. They probably changed their minds about the 'direction' somewhat recently, they've been known to do that...

[Jokerz79]

One or two years ago the story was probably fine. They probably changed their minds about the 'direction' somewhat recently, they've been known to do that...

Yup that'd be my guess.