Marvel Cancel "The Vision"

[jetengine]

Not a D&C minion like you'd say buuuuut....
I really don't like Chelsea Kane as a writer, so I'm happy that Vision is safe for now.

Same.

Its not the femenist stuff that was the problem (as on the nose and bungled as it was) it was the ridiculous retconning to try and shore up her newly fabricated background. This also included making Bobbi a psychopath who killed her BF rather then just break up with him.

[Wiccan]

Same.

Its not the femenist stuff that was the problem (as on the nose and bungled as it was) it was the ridiculous retconning to try and shore up her newly fabricated background. This also included making Bobbi a psychopath who killed her BF rather then just break up with him.

I hated that retcon too. I don't think it makes any sense. But like 90% of the people who are constantly hating on her, don't even know about it, because they didn't even read the book. They just saw the "Ask me about my Feminist Agenda" shirt cover and decided she was the devil.

[Mike_Murdock]

I suspect most didn't read either her series or the original Steve Englehart ones.

All that being said, I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I don't have a problem with an Agent of SHIELD being more comfortable with allowing someone to die, I get that the original story was dancing around the word rape because of the Comics Code, and I also don't blame Ms. Cain for the desire to not go with such an overused trope as character motivation, but it does make the original story somewhat nonsensical.

[jetengine]

I hated that retcon too. I don't think it makes any sense. But like 90% of the people who are constantly hating on her, don't even know about it, because they didn't even read the book. They just saw the "Ask me about my Feminist Agenda" shirt cover and decided she was the devil.

Pretty much.

As I said, it was dumb and on the nose but no worse then other hamfisted attempts at inserting real world messages (which require skill to not come across terribly).

The issues were the above mentioned retcon and the whole "Superhero community is garbage cause I had no female role models" when (even ignoring the sliding timescale) there were tons of Golden Age Mystery Women (is that the feminine Mystery Men?).

Diversity and Comics latched onto that because their scum that hate anything that isnt white muscled dudebros from the 90s followed by Liefeld Women.

I suspect most didn't read either her series or the original Steve Englehart ones.

All that being said, I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I don't have a problem with an Agent of SHIELD being more comfortable with allowing someone to die, I get that the original story was dancing around the word rape because of the Comics Code, and I also don't blame Ms. Cain for the desire to not go with such an overused trope as character motivation, but it does make the original story somewhat nonsensical.

More then nonsensical. It means SHE KILLED HER BF TO AVOID BREAKING UP WITH HIM. You cant sell that as heroic or even an example of pro femenism. Its straight up insanity.

[Triniking1234]

Wasn't really a fan of Cain after the Phantom Rider story but Marvel badly handled this. If the project was in development for 2 years there would've been easy communication with the Avengers office to avoid any continuity problems. If that was even the real reason for the cancellation.

[legion_quest]

This happens all the time to all sorts of writers and characters.

Only reason this is a thing is because the writer has a story around her.

Sucks for her and the artist, but it isn't a special event.

[JKtheMac]

It seems like they were paid for their work, at least if Bleeding Cool's report is accurate.

That's sounds highly unlikely. Every interview I have heard that touches on how the money works would suggest no payment is made without publication. There is a slim possibility that after the Fraction affair they added a cancellation clause but whether that would mean the effort put in was properly paid for or not being available for other work is adequately compensated only the creatives would be able to judge.

[Mike_Murdock]

I'd like to see some sources for that. I agree they wouldn't pay for pages not yet drawn, but it seems unlikely they wouldn't pay for pages drawn but not published.

[TheRev72]

Occam's razor: After seeing four issues of the book, Editorial thought it sucked and nixed it. "Continuity" explanations are just spin to save face for the writer.

[Digifiend]

Wasn't really a fan of Cain after the Phantom Rider story but Marvel badly handled this. If the project was in development for 2 years there would've been easy communication with the Avengers office to avoid any continuity problems. If that was even the real reason for the cancellation.

Aren't both Vision and Champions Avengers office books? Champions was a spin-off from ANAD Avengers and Vision obviously has always been an Avenger.

[Triniking1234]

Occam's razor: After seeing four issues of the book, Editorial thought it sucked and nixed it. "Continuity" explanations are just spin to save face for the writer.

Even if that was the case that means someone saw it and said "let's go ahead with this" and then almost 4 weeks later someone went "aw hell no" and pulled the plug.

Aren't both Vision and Champions Avengers office books? Champions was a spin-off from ANAD Avengers and Vision obviously has always been an Avenger.

They should be. Waid's Champions spins off from his All-New Avengers run.

[Captain M]

How come Marvel waited until 4 issues were done to realize the continuity doesn't line up? How was this not decided after first issue was approved?

Nvm I'm not actually surprised

[mreddie]

My guess is Cain was gonna kill off Vision and that wouldn't fit into Zub's Champions plans which hint he's getting killed off...ugh.

Also, the project was in the works for 2 years and likely was lost in the EiC transition and yet no one told her to at least change things? This seems suspect to me.

Cain is done with Marvel though. That and getting no communication when she got harassed post Mockingbird seem like there's no point working for them who didn't have her back and just canned her project a month after announcing it plus her not getting a invite to the Eisners when she booked to be in San Diego thanks to them. Yeah, not shocked she's gonna burn a bridge. They needed her more than she needed them.

[responsarbre]

Occam's razor: After seeing four issues of the book, Editorial thought it sucked and nixed it. "Continuity" explanations are just spin to save face for the writer.

I don't really see how Occam's Razor would encourage you to assume that the given explanation is a complete lie? Or that Marvel somehow would decline to release a series (and therefore sacrifice the money invested in making it) just because it's not good (considering the laundry list of not-so-good stories Marvel has published)?

The available evidence more or less seems to sync up with the explanation given. Cain & co. were given this project a couple years ago (as reported by BleedingCool at the time and corroborated by Cain on Twitter), they worked on a story that continued where King left off, and the details of that story don't mesh with what's happened/is going to happen with the Vision family in other books.

Also, the project was in the works for 2 years and likely was lost in the EiC transition and yet no one told her to at least change things? This seems suspect to me.

This is the most confusing part to me, but as fragmented as Marvel editorial is, I'm not surprised.

Cain is done with Marvel though. That and getting no communication when she got harassed post Mockingbird seem like there's no point working for them who didn't have her back and just canned her project a month after announcing it plus her not getting a invite to the Eisners when she booked to be in San Diego thanks to them. Yeah, not shocked she's gonna burn a bridge. They needed her more than she needed them.

Yeah, Cain's made it clear that she doesn't have much stake in continuing a career at Marvel. She had a strong reaction, but she's basically the only type of person allowed to have that kind of reaction because she's not beholden to the freelancer life. And I think she's justified because this really is the sort of thing that shouldn't have been a problem. Usually the team behind a character's solo is the one that gets to decide what happens with the character, and if not, editorial should have been proactive in making disparate storylines work together.

[Mike_Murdock]

Occam's razor: After seeing four issues of the book, Editorial thought it sucked and nixed it. "Continuity" explanations are just spin to save face for the writer.

That's not Occam's Razor at all. Occam's Razor is that something in Part 5 gave them pause. Otherwise, they wouldn't have let parts one through four be written and announced the book. If they thought it sucked, they would have stopped before the original announcement.