The Lasso's Truth Powers

[Agent Z]

It's been said by some fans that the lasso's truth powers only make the person bound tell the truth as they believe it to be not the objective truth. This interpretation was commonly believed among fans in wake of Max's death at Diana's hands (it was used to bolster the argument that killing Max was wrong, never mind that Max would know more than anyone else the range of his own powers).

Anyway has this ever been the case before that Diana used the lasso and only got the truth as the person knew it?

[AmiMizuno]

Even in the golden age.Priscilla the first cheetah found a way to hide her true personality (Cheetah) away when she was in court. When Diana used the lasso she told the truth. This was before they limited the lasso's power. I kind of wish they brought back the whole you can make the person do whatever you want.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Yes, though they were specialized cases.
The original Cheetah was considered to be two seperate people and Pricilla under the lasso would know nothing that the Cheetah had done and thus would answer like that.
The Duke of Deception once created a remote controlled copy of a person which didn't count as a person when Wonder Woman lasso'd it and thus it said what the duke of deception wanted.

Though keep in mind that nowadays the lasso works by merging souls or some such

[marhawkman]

There's also that scene where WW uses it on Deva. That went hilariously wrong. Deva hinted that the lasso basically allowed WW to read the mind of the person she lassoed, and that it was a two-way street. Let's just say Deva learned more about WW than WW learned about Deva. this is kinda like the merging souls thing though.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

There's also that scene where WW uses it on Deva. That went hilariously wrong. Deva hinted that the lasso basically allowed WW to read the mind of the person she lassoed, and that it was a two-way street. Let's just say Deva learned more about WW than WW learned about Deva. this is kinda like the merging souls thing though.

I confess im not entirly sure how the soul merge thing works. The closest comparison that springs to mind is that eye contact thing from the Harry Dresden books.

[marhawkman]

I confess im not entirly sure how the soul merge thing works. The closest comparison that springs to mind is that eye contact thing from the Harry Dresden books.

In some ways it sounds like a Vulcan Mind Meld from Star Trek, except maybe not so much the conscious mind. I'm not sure how much it lingers though. Mind melding can do some really screwy things. A deep enough Mind Meld can actually copy someone's personality completely. It's hinted that some Vulcans have actually gone so far as to mutually copy their personalities into each other. It's a very give-and-take thing though and leaves your thoughts just as exposed as the other guy's.

We know SOME of that applies to the lasso. Probably not the mind copying thing though.

[AmiMizuno]

How should the lasso work? There been changes with the lasso but the same outcome. I do think maybe the orignal lasso should be something that has to be able to unlocked

[Fuzzy Mittens]

How should the lasso work? There been changes with the lasso but the same outcome. I do think maybe the orignal lasso should be something that has to be able to unlocked

I don't know about how it should work, but I would certainly reevaluate its importance in the DC universe. I would argue that it is one of the most unique items in the dc universe and I would like to see writers treat it as such. I want to see DC showing the magic lasso at least the same level of reverence as Thors hammer as its supposed to be this important all powerful artifact.

[AmiMizuno]

I don't know about how it should work, but I would certainly reevaluate its importance in the DC universe. I would argue that it is one of the most unique items in the dc universe and I would like to see writers treat it as such. I want to see DC showing the magic lasso at least the same level of reverence as Thors hammer as its supposed to be this important all powerful artifact.

And this is why I dislike how DC at times treats Diana. They have at times made the lasso unless item. One thing I kind of like to see is the Super friend version that Diana can control it with her minded. Maybe the lasso can have more of bond with Diana. That due to Diana having it close it can somewhat give her he ability to the truth.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

And this is why I dislike how DC at times treats Diana. They have at times made the lasso unless item. One thing I kind of like to see is the Super friend version that Diana can control it with her minded. Maybe the lasso can have more of bond with Diana. That due to Diana having it close it can somewhat give her he ability to the truth.

Heck she was kinda doing that during the movie. Remember that scene during the Ares fight where she cast the lasso to get Ares and he was using his power to hold it back, with the lasso seeming to twist and move like Wonder Woman was willing it to go forward?

Wonder Womans greatest problem at DC is that she hasn't had an editor who cares about her and shes been expected to take a back seat to other characters

[kjn]

Heck she was kinda doing that during the movie. Remember that scene during the Ares fight where she cast the lasso to get Ares and he was using his power to hold it back, with the lasso seeming to twist and move like Wonder Woman was willing it to go forward?

I'd say that in the beginning of her fight against Ares, Diana was fighting against him with both hands tied behind her back and in entirely the wrong way. You can't fight against the god of war and passionate rage from a position of anger or glory. She needed to come at him from a position of compassion and love.

(Which is also why the movie fundamentally undercuts the theme that Zimmer wrote for her in BvS, because it represents a Wonder Woman who is in the wrong mindspace.)

[Frank]

Pre-crisis examples don't apply, really, because while it was called the Lasso of Truth, it was really the Lasso of Obey-My-Commands. Pre-crisis WW used the lasso most often to force people to tell the truth, but she also used it to force people to forget certain facts or force them not to tell others something, or force them to stop what they were doing, or force them to engage in a certain action. It was, in effect, the lasso of unwilling submission.

[marhawkman]

I don't know about how it should work, but I would certainly reevaluate its importance in the DC universe. I would argue that it is one of the most unique items in the dc universe and I would like to see writers treat it as such. I want to see DC showing the magic lasso at least the same level of reverence as Thors hammer as its supposed to be this important all powerful artifact.

some do, some don't. but even the ones that don't treat it as an uber-relic still have it as something that pretty much everyone wants, even if it's as a novelty. It has a variety of origin stories, but it's always a unique relic that represents the power of the Olympians.

[WonderScott]

For my money, I like the "forces someone to tell the truth as they know it," which at times might be the actual truth or only reveal how they've been misguided. To double my money, I think Simone was the most inventive in using the lasso's power to delve it the psyche of those ensnared in it so she could show them/uncover truths they hide from or deny themselves.

The latter is fairly invasive which brings up a lot of interesting questions for Diana and her use of the lasso - which is something I'd like to see her grapple with as a character and her mission to change the hearts of men. I mean, she gets an opponent to face a fear or humiliation or truth about themselves they've covered up for a lifetime...it's like quick-serve psychotherapy right to root of their being... What responsiblity does she have for the pain and/or emotional state that causes someone? Does she have a team of psychiatrists and psychologists on speed-dial ready to take over once they've learned their truth? Do she found Transformation Island again for their aftercare?

The lasso and its usage and Diana's mission and her mores makes for some interesting questions I'd like to see answered and be an ongoing factor in the book. It's a weapon and power I don't see her using lightly.

[kjn]

WonderScott raises some interesting takes, but there is another factor that's been used by a few writers: that of purifying fire. As such, it can dispell illusions, force out daemons, remove impurities of body, and so on (from a classical Greek standpoint, I can see a lie being interpreted as an impurity of mind). Fontana used some of that in her "Heart of the Amazon" storyline.

Now, how would the lasso work against someone who believes in their own lies? I'm not really sure.