Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[Arya]

1) You are splitting hairs with the transmutation stuff. Storm has subatomic control over matter and energy and she has demonstrated transmutation on panel. While she does not usually wield this power, this means she can challenge somebody for control over matter at this level. If Silver Surfer wanted to transmute her, she could contest him for that by exercising control over her own body structure at the subatomic level. Likewise, if she wanted to transmute him, he could contest her in the same fashion. The victor in such a contest would likely come down to who has the strongest will and the most raw power. Storm wins on both fronts (willpower and raw power) if you take her at her very best showings.

Again, Storm does not usually exhibit this power in canon, but on the boards, we give her the full credit of her powerset.

2) In those instances you are referring to where Stardust was taken out by those attacks, how many of those attacks were strong enough to dissipate her/blow her to atoms? Storm attacked Stardust at the subatomic level and blew her apart completely dissipating her. Do you get what I am saying? None of those instances you are referring to taxed Stardust's constitution to the point her body was completely destroyed, so yes, Storm most certainly did hurt Stardust as her attack did FAR more damage than Beta Ray Bill's, etc.

3) You are correct that multiple writers have written Storm, but the stories they write are far from consistent in writing her power levels. In some stories, she can barely hit a guy riding a motorcycle. In others, she can channel the power of millions of stars, sew together realities that are coming apart at their seams, draw upon enough power to beat entities that wield the sum total power of all matter/energy/life for an entire reality's past/present/future, etc. You get my drift? My point is if you take Storm at her best, she's far more than you give her credit for and she has the feats to prove this. I don't doubt your love for the character. I believe you care for this character, but you don't give her feats all they are due. I believe you feel Storm should not be able to wield certain power levels (in her human form), so you try and figure out ways to lessen the feats she does that place her above the limits you try and impose on her. You even go the extreme of trying to find other stories where her powers are less to try and discredit the power levels she displays in stories where her feats eclipse where you say her power levels are.

4) Again, at the levels Storm is mostly portrayed at, I would agree with your assessments. She can't beat a Herald of Galactus or abstract let alone do any real damage to a character in this power class. However, whether you like it or not, she was designed to have "near-infinite" power from the start. Every now and then we get to see glimpses of the true power she wields, but holds back. When we see those glimpses, it becomes obvious that she has the power to do what I claim. It is based off of those rare feats of power that we see her display that I base my arguments in this regard.

5) We can go on and on about this, but we will never agree, to be honest. I think both sides have substantially argued their position. There really isn't anymore reason to keep debating this.

This is my last post on this subject.
1. Let's just start with Stardust. First Galactus transmuting energy is greater than Storm's. Galactus was about to feed and virtually nothing in the universe can stop it. That is greater than what storm did. He was literally transmuting an entire planet and stardust with some aid slowed it down. You know nothing about Beta Ray Bill. He's a legit planet buster powered by Odin himself. His attacks are song enough to hurt or slow down Stardust. Magic is a counter to the power cosmic. This is what I am talking about. You don't know anything about the characters you reference and you create this artificial limits that only work in your mind because you don't read the comics about any other character or respect the powers and abilities they have. You are treating Storm's disintegration of stardust like it's the most powerful display when it pails in comparison to Galactus or Beta Ray Bill. You get to do that but it destroys any objectivity and stunts discussion. It undermines any and all discussion and can cause anyone that reads this to think you are going overboard.

2. Her creating clothes isn't the same thing as the surfer rebuilding entire cities or any of the other things his powers grant him. You take a couple of instances of her manipulating unstable molecules and compare it to a being that has reconstituted himself from atoms. They aren't comparable. Since she has never done more than make clothes you can't sit there with a straight face and then claim she's a match for the surfer. You lose credibility when you do that. Google the surfer's feats.

3. Because all you do is take her at her best while you ignore how powerful the people you put her up against. You literally no nothing about the Heralds of Galactus or the Odin backed power of beta ray bill. Instead of saying I don't know You literally create scenarios that give storm powers she's never had at levels she's never done in the 616. It is possible for her to be on the level of a Herald but at this point she's no where near that.

She can have access to near limitless power but don't pretend that there aren't caveats to that. Her power displays are based on her environment. She has never just generated near infinite power without working with natural forces.

[rutog98]

This is my last post on this subject.
1. Let's just start with Stardust. First Galactus transmuting energy is greater than Storm's. Galactus was about to feed and virtually nothing in the universe can stop it. That is greater than what storm did. He was literally transmuting an entire planet and stardust with some aid slowed it down. You know nothing about Beta Ray Bill. He's a legit planet buster powered by Odin himself. His attacks are song enough to hurt or slow down Stardust. Magic is a counter to the power cosmic. This is what I am talking about. You don't know anything about the characters you reference and you create this artificial limits that only work in your mind because you don't read the comics about any other character or respect the powers and abilities they have. You are treating Storm's disintegration of stardust like it's the most powerful display when it pails in comparison to Galactus or Beta Ray Bill. You get to do that but it destroys any objectivity and stunts discussion. It undermines any and all discussion and can cause anyone that reads this to think you are going overboard.

2. Her creating clothes isn't the same thing as the surfer rebuilding entire cities or any of the other things his powers grant him. You take a couple of instances of her manipulating unstable molecules and compare it to a being that has reconstituted himself from atoms. They aren't comparable. Since she has never done more than make clothes you can't sit there with a straight face and then claim she's a match for the surfer. You lose credibility when you do that. Google the surfer's feats.

3. Because all you do is take her at her best while you ignore how powerful the people you put her up against. You literally no nothing about the Heralds of Galactus or the Odin backed power of beta ray bill. Instead of saying I don't know You literally create scenarios that give storm powers she's never had at levels she's never done in the 616. It is possible for her to be on the level of a Herald but at this point she's no where near that.

She can have access to near limitless power but don't pretend that there aren't caveats to that. Her power displays are based on her environment. She has never just generated near infinite power without working with natural forces.

This is my last post on the subject...

1) You make a fool out of yourself when you make such assumptions about what you think I know or don't know and it only highlights your ignorance. I've read a lot of Thor, Fantastic Four, Avengers, and Inhumans comics, by the way. When I first got into comics, I was curious about everything and would go to my comic store and read back issues from all of these titles to see which ones caught my fancy. For starters, Beta Ray Bill is like another Thor. Big deal. Beta Ray Bill was not hitting Stardust with magic spells ala Dr. Strange-like attacks to hurt him. If a person is merely powered by magic, that is not the same as slinging mystical spells. We both know that, so stop trying to make that foolish claim. The fact is, the attacks Beta Ray Bill was using against Stardust were not strong enough to blow his atoms apart. The attack Storm mustered was, therefore, Storm hit Stardust with a harder attack because of the damage she did. Your arguments amounts to such foolishness as a scenario where two people can say bench press 20 tons. If one person got their super strength from a mutation and another got their 20 ton strength from a magic spell that imbued them with super strength, guess what? They are equally strong. The person who got their strength from magic isn't going to be able to hit harder than the person who got their power from a mutation just because the source of his power is magic. Just to tell it like it is, all of the Asgardians are powered by magic as they are all mystical beings. That said, there are a TON of mutants out there that are much stronger than many of the Asgardians. Heck, Colossus is stronger than many of the Asgardians and he has no magic whatsoever. Seriously? You need to get off your high horse especially when you don't know what you are talking about. Your argument about magic automitically being stronger than non-magic is just so misguided. Heck, Shaman controls the weather through magic, yet Storm was able to wrest control of his mystically blizzard from him, double its power, and turn his own mystically-created storm back upon him. He was powerless to stop her.

2) Here, once more, you show your ignorance of Storm's powers. I was not using instances of her transmuting clothes made up of unstable molecules, but her creating clothing out of thin air via electron manipulation. Granted, transmutation is a mainstay in SS's powerset, therefore, he's going to be written with more feats in this area and some will be large. However, we have seen Storm on panel supersede another Herald's control over his own body structure at the subatomic level. Transmutations deal with the manipuation of matter and energy at the atomic or subatomic level. Give the lady her due. She wrested control of Stardust's body from him at the subatomic level. On top of this, Storm's rare high end feats outclasses the Silver Surfer's powers meaning Storm could probably overwhelm Silver Surfer in transmutation if she really wanted to since she has more power to back it up. Thing is, transmutation is not a mainstay in Storm's powerset, so we don't have many feats from her in that area. If Storm were written with her subatomic control over matter and energy and had to fight Silver Surfer in transmutation, it would come down to who has the strongest will and the most raw power. Storm wins on both accounts if taken at her best.

3) Storm has always had near-infinite power. That was established very early in her career under CC. Also, Storm can tap into the power of the universe (hence, she perceives the universe as patterns of energy and forces she can bend to her will) and draw power from that. The amount of power she can wield is limited only by the strength of her body and boundless will. So, the question is can Storm draw on enough energy to overpower Silver Surfer? The answer is yes. Storm's will and body is capable of wielding higher energy ouputs than what the SS can produce.

4) Getting back to the point of your trying to hold Storm back, look, Storm hit Stardust with enough power to blow his atoms apart. Beta Ray Bill did not muster any attack of such power against Stardust, hence his physical attacks against the herald did not obliterate her body like Storm's did. Both Storm and Beta Ray Bill attacked Stardust with brute power. Storm was able to muster far greater brute force than what BRB produced, hence the result of her dissipating Stardust while he could not. Phoenix Force Jean Grey beat Firelord, another Herald of Galactus, by striking him with a blast backed by the power of a star. Storm has thrown attacks backed by the full power of a star (which tops Phoenix Force Jean Grey's attack on Firelord). Yet, after confronted with such facts, you still try and argue that Storm cannot even hurt a herald. You try to go with lesser showings of the character rather than her upper showings because you don't want Storm to be as powerful as she is. Give Storm her due. You don't get to decide her limitations. Canon does.

[JonSilvercloud]

You're not the only one. I feel the same way. A lot of the science behind her powers just makes my head hurt. But I do enjoy seeing the discussion between rutog and arya.

Good to know, thanks :-) I do enjoy the discussion too.

[Arya]

Glad to see it's amusing. Back to Storm.

[rutog98]

Wow, I just got even more respect for Storm! Beta Ray Bill did all of that and still could not scatter Stardust's atoms like Storm did. This just goes to show how much power Storm has!

You know, this reminds me of another fact about the Phoenix Force Jean Grey vs. Firelord fight. When PF Jean Grey hit Firelord with her first attack, he commented on how he had never been hit that hard since his battle with Thor right after he was struck. Later, when Phoenix Force Jean Grey won the fight, she hit him even stronger with a blast backed by the power of a star to beat him. In other words, the blast backed by the power of a star was MUCH stronger than the earlier Thor-level blast she hit him with. So, to reiterate, the Thor level attacks weren't cutting it against Firelord. He was able to keep coming back from those kinds of assaults, so Jean had to go stronger and throw an attack backed by the power of a star.

Storm, on the other hand, can muster attacks stronger than any Phoenix Force Jean Grey used in her battle with Firelord. Storm summoned an attack backed by the full power of a star which, again, beats what PF Jean defeated Firelord with.

So, to put things in order:

Thor's attacks against Firelord (less than/weaker than)<<<<<Phoenix's attack on Firelord (less than/weaker than)<<<<<STORM!

[Arya]

Wow, I just got even more respect for Storm! Beta Ray Bill did all of that and still could not scatter Stardust's atoms like Storm did. This just goes to show how much power Storm has!

You know, this reminds me of another fact about the Phoenix Force Jean Grey vs. Firelord fight. When PF Jean Grey hit Firelord with her first attack, he commented on how he had never been hit that hard since his battle with Thor right after he was struck. Later, when Phoenix Force Jean Grey won the fight, she hit him even stronger with a blast backed by the power of a star to beat him. In other words, the blast backed by the power of a star was MUCH stronger than the earlier Thor-level blast she hit him with.

Storm, on the other hand, can muster attacks stronger than any Phoenix Force Jean Grey used in her battle with Firelord. Storm summoned an attack backed by the full power of a star which, again, beats what PF Jean defeated Firelord with.

So, to put things in order:

Thor's attacks against Firelord (less than/weaker than)<<<<<Phoenix's attack on Firelord (less than/weaker than)<<<<<STORM!

That's what pain looks like on a herald, something Storm with all her power couldn't do.

[rutog98]

That's what pain looks like on a herald, something Storm with all her power couldn't do.

Stardust could not show pain or scream when Storm attacked her because Storm's attack was so strong that it de-atomized her body. In other words, Storm robbed Stardust of the means of showing pain because she had no body to do so. Beta Ray Bill's power isn't strong enough to do what Storm did, so we were able to get facial expressions and stuff from Stardust from his much weaker attack.

[Arya]

Stardust could not show pain or scream when Storm attacked her because Storm's attack was so strong that it de-atomized her body. In other words, Storm robbed Stardust of the means of showing pain because she had no body to do so. Beta Ray Bill's power isn't strong enough to do what Storm did, so we were able to get facial expressions and stuff from Stardust from his much weaker attack.

This is all Storm did.


It wasn't permanent. Stardust is a girl.

[rutog98]

This is all Storm did.


It wasn't permanent.

No, it was not permanent, but it did far more damage than what Beta Ray Bill did. BRB could not blow Stardust's atoms apart like that, lol! From what I have researched, Stardust's body has only been destroyed twice: Storm and the annihilation wave were the only two things that have blown Stardust up. Stardust is indestructable for all intents and purposes and she was able to reconstitute herself after suffering both calamities.

Notice as well how Storm tells Surfer to stand aside or risk being struck by the full force of her powers. In other words, the attack she used against him earlier with the hydrogen atoms was nowhere near her full power. She's telling him she can do him some serious damage. From what we have seen of her high end power levels, this is no empty claim.

This also shows that when Stardust was fighting Storm and her teamates, she was not pulling her punches. Look at what Stardust said before Storm attacked her. Stardust was going for the kill in this fight. So, when Storm tanked Stardust's blast, Stardust was not pulling her punches. It makes sense, though. If Storm can channel the power of millions of stars through her body, then a writer could argue that she can tank blasts even of cosmic magnetitude. Just one more feat for Storm. Thanks, McDuffie!

[Arya]

No, it was not permanent, but it did far more damage than what Beta Ray Bill did. BRB could not blow Stardust's atoms apart like that, lol! From what I have researched, only Storm and the annihilation wave were the only two things that have blown Stardust up. Stardust is indestructable, for all intents and purposes.

Notice as well how Storm tells Surfer to stand aside or risk being struck by the full force of her powers. In other words, the attack she used against him earlier with the hydrogen atoms was nowhere near her full power. She's telling him she can do him some serious damage. From what we have seen of her high end power levels, this is no empty claim.

This also shows that when Stardust was fighting Storm and her teamates, she was not pulling her punches. Look at what Stardust said before Storm attacked her. Stardust was going for the kill in this fight. So, when Storm tanked Stardust's blast, Stardust was not pulling her punches. It makes sense, though. If Storm can channel the power of millions of stars through her body, then a writer could argue that she can tank blasts even of cosmic magnetitude. Just one more feat for Storm. Thanks, McDuffie!

No it didn't. Stardust's matter was not negated or diminished. Stardust has endured black holes, Storm's attack did nothing. Stardust didn't attack Storm, she attacked Graviton. Graviton tanked the blast, not Storm. You don't do enough research or understand what you research, nothing can destroy Stardust. Not the Annihilation wave, Galactus' energy transmuting or Storm's lightning or her fight with Beta Ray Bill. Bill disintegrated her. She came back. She will always come back. Thanks Galactus.

[rutog98]

No it didn't. Stardust's matter was not negated or diminished. Stardust has endured black holes, Storm's attack did nothing.

Storm's attack blew her body apart. BRB 's attack wasn't strong enough to do that. Look, what part of Stardust is indestructable do you not understand? That means a blackhole won't kill her. That means Storm or the annihilation wave blowing her apart won't kill her. The only way to kill her might be to get a character with the powerset to drain her life force. In other words, someone with a powerset like Selene's, but boosting Selene's life force draining power to cosmic levels, might be able to kill Stardust.

[Arya]

Storm's attack blew her body apart. BRB 's attack wasn't strong enough to do that. Look, what part of Stardust is indestructable do you not understand? That means a blackhole won't kill her. That means Storm or the annihilation wave blowing her apart won't kill her. The only way to kill her might be to get a character with the powerset to drain her life force. In other words, someone with a powerset like Selene's, but boosting Selene's life force draining power to cosmic levels, might be able to kill Stardust.

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Bill exploded her body and she reconstituted herself. You say nothing can hurt her but then at the say time say Storm can. Stop contradicting yourself.

[rutog98]

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Bill exploded her body and she reconstituted herself. You say nothing can hurt her but then at the say time say Storm can. Stop contradicting yourself.

I'm saying nothing can *kill* her save perhaps a life force draining foe who is wields such an ability on a cosmic scale. That is different from being hurt. I never said that Stardust cannot be harmed. Stardust can definitely be hurt. She was clearly hurt by BRB's attack. She was clearly hurt by Storm who threw a much more powerful attack at her than BRB. If Beta Ray Bill exploded her body, where is the scan of that? I think you making this up about BRB blowing up her body because you realize your argument is weak against mine.

Say you have a steel box. If you hit the steel box with a hammer and you manage to dent it, you did cause harm to the box. Now, if you blew up the box, that would be FAR more damage/harm to the box than merely denting it with a hammer. Beta Ray Bill merely dented the metal box, so to speak, with his attack on Stardust. Storm blew the box up, which is far more damage. Your claim amounts to merely denting the metal box is more powerful/damaging than blowing it up. Its bad logic and a 5 year old would know better. You are so desperate to try and rob Storm of the credit due for her feats.

[Arya]

I'm saying nothing can *kill* her save perhaps a life force draining foe who is wields such an ability on a cosmic scale. That is different from being hurt. I never said that Stardust cannot be harmed. Stardust can definitely be hurt. She was clearly hurt by BRB's attack. She was clearly hurt by Storm who threw a much more powerful attack at her than BRB. If Beta Ray Bill exploded her body, where is the scan of that? I think you making this up about BRB blowing up her body because you realize your argument is weak against mine.

Say you have a steel box. If you hit the steel box with a hammer and you manage to dent it, you did cause harm to the box. Now, if you blew up the box, that would be FAR more damage/harm to the box than merely denting it with a hammer. Beta Ray Bill merely dented the metal box, so to speak, with his attack on Stardust. Storm blew the box up, which is far more damage. Your claim amounts to merely denting the metal box is more powerful/damaging than blowing it up. Its bad logic and a 5 year old would know better. You are so desperate to try and rob Storm of the credit due for her feats.

Go back a page.

[rutog98]

Go back a page.

Just did. He never dispersed Stardust's form. Arya, you've lost this debate. Give it up. Storm blew up Stardust and BRB, who rivals Thor, could not. Storm's attack was more powerful than BRB's. Not one of the attacks BRB landed on Stardust came anywhere near the force Storm hurled at Stardust when she blew up the Herald. In another story, Phoenix Force Jean Grey threw attacks that equalled the power of Thor at Firelord and could not put him down. She had to end up throwing an attack backed by the power of a star to win her battle with Firelord. Storm has topped what Phoenix Force Jean Grey threw at Firelord, too.

Look, give Storm her due, okay? Stop trying to rob Storm's feats of the full credit they deserve. She can do serious damage to a Herald. Heck, that's why she told Surfer to get out of her way or get struck. Again, in other words, that hydrogen feat she pulled on Surfer earlier was nowhere near what Storm can do and she was letting him know that.

BRB can hurt Silver Surfer, yet he can't blow up Stardust. Storm can blow up Stardust. Put 2 and 2 together.