Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[rutog98]

Storm is not the only character to have such a connection. Empathic elemental Meggan from Excalibur also has an intrinsic connection to the lifeforce of the world and can subconsciously be influence and empowered through that innate connection. Geokinetic Rictor also has an inherent connection to the lifeforce of the world, so much so that when his powers were lost in M Day, he wanted to commit suicide(exactly how Ororo felt when Forge's gun stripped her of her powers at first).

Phoenix in the DPS also showed Mastermind a taste of universal connection, but his mind was not prepared for the scale. Compare to Storm becoming one with Eternity, unphased.

Meggan's powers are much more similar to Ororo's than people like Jean, Emma, Xavier, X-Man. I can agree with you somewhat here. The Phoenix Force also has some similarities to Ororo's powerset. Rictor doesn't have what Ororo has, though. I'm not saying he doesn't have any sort of connection, but nowhere near as deep as what Storm has. Meggan and the Phoenix Force are much better examples.

[yogaflame]

And Storm has bend and broke the laws of physics.

So do telepaths/telekinetics.



Even get into the lifeglow/spirit of a person.



See, Jean's manifestation happened like this, under duress, but without any training or trying, she was automatically pulled into her friend's mind, and shared her death, without actively trying to do anything. And she couldn't turn it off.

[butterflykyss]

You clearly miscomprehended the panel in your previous response. I did not insult, but perhaps my observation of your mistake was tactless. Having you disagree with my point of view for the last two day has obviously made me a bit more adversarial then I would prefer. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings with my observation.

I have made many detailed post describing the SIMILARITIES of Storm's powers to other PSIONIC powers, making a COMPARISON to telepathy and telekinesis, while MAINTAINING that Storm's powers operate on a different frequency/different medium than other psions.

In direct response to your question, as I already wrote about in previous entries (but perhaps in too broad of strokes), Emma couldn't use Ororo's powers as well as Ororo could use Emma's because Ororo had half a life of experience interfacing with the atmospheric mind/the elements. So while Emma COULD use her powers, it was a bit hard for her because of the scale. Even Ororo herself struggles with her powers at times("oh, this storm was almost too big for me to handle, wow, how did I even make this?"), so this is not to be unexpected, just as a novice telepath can't do all the things an accomplished telepath can do, despite have the exact same mutation. Both skilled artists, just one's a sculptor(Ororo) who works at scale on Mt Rushmore sized pieces, the other is a cartoonist(Emma, who works in simple pictures and words). Visualizing the concept was no problem for Emma, but the execution at scale was beyond her skillset, whereas Ororo was able to get used to the different medium more easily because it is just simply smaller. Different mediums aside, THEY ARE STILL BOTH ARTISTS!!!!

Thank you

Yea I didn't think he was making the point about them both requiring concentration. But as I stated after getting clarification what the intent was behind posting the scan, concentration is the only that was the common denominator. Concentration is required to exert her will over the elements as is required to block thoughts out of her mind. It doesn't say to read someone's mind or control their thoughts would be same as manipulating the weather she perceives as energy.

I get and understand your points and rationale. Ororo has a different output but the way she achieves her output is the same way telepaths and telekinetics would. Is this correct? If so this is what I'm saying disagree with.

Now before I begin, this next part is being made depending on if my previous assumption about your point is true: the pathway or application to achieve the desired output for both ororo and telepaths/telekinitetic are the same.

1. First point, Emma is an accomplished and master telepath. If the application is the same Emma should not have has such a difficulty was she did to get the storm under control.

2. Second point, Ororo comments she has been at one with the winds which establishes a connection. If the application is the same what prevented Emma from understanding this? Perhaps she isn't connected to the minds she reads in the way ororo is with the elements. Also Ororo seemingly has a complete and different experience as a telepath. She doesn't show the same enthusiasm as Emma when she first used hee powers etc. Why the differences? Is it because Emma's powers to her are less impressive?

3. Third point, why was Emma so enthralled at first using storm powers?? the path to the outputs are the same in both characters. The connections experienced thriugh different mediums are dufferent, but that feeling experienced shouldn't change.

[butterflykyss]

What's the conversation now????

Too many pages to figure out how this started.

the question if the day is do ororo's powers work the same as telepaths and telekinetics?

[rutog98]

So do telepaths/telekinetics.



Even get into the lifeglow/spirit of a person.



See, Jean's manifestation happened like this, under duress, but without any training or trying, she was automatically pulled into her friend's mind, and shared her death, without actively trying to do anything. And she couldn't turn it off.

The first scan has to do with the Phoenix Force. That nullifies it to being a TP/TK thing since the Phoenix Force is so much more than that.

In the second scan, Jean could not turn it off. That shows a major difference with Ororo's first showing. Storm was under TREMENDOUS duress when her powers first manifested themselves and she had complete control over those abilities. This is because of the depth of Storm's connection to the universal life force around her and the nature of her power and control. Heck, Xavier even had to shut down Jean's telepathy because she could not even LEARN to control it for years.

[butterflykyss]

So do telepaths/telekinetics.



Even get into the lifeglow/spirit of a person.



See, Jean's manifestation happened like this, under duress, but without any training or trying, she was automatically pulled into her friend's mind, and shared her death, without actively trying to do anything. And she couldn't turn it off.

yes and concentration, as with ororo's powers, would be required ti prrvent her doing that as supported by wg scan. now beyond that what are the similarities?

jean grey in the scan you provided didn't need to establish a communion with the lock prior to moving it. once she reached out to it, it was going to move. the lock didn't grant her any permission to access it's locking/unlocking mechanism. Jean wouldnt experience any feedback from the lock being shattered or broken by someone else while she was trying to unlock it.

With telepaths I believe their are more similarities to ororo's powers versus telekinetics. I do think think it becomes a bit harder to distinguish the differences but I point to the scans with Emma to support my thoughts there have to be vast differences for Emma to respond in the way she did once she in her body.

[butterflykyss]

The first scan has to do with the Phoenix Force. That nullifies it to being a TP/TK thing since the Phoenix Force is so much more than that.

In the second scan, Jean could not turn it off. That shows a major difference with Ororo's first showing. Storm was under TREMENDOUS duress when her powers first manifested themselves and she had complete control over those abilities. Heck, Xavier even had to shut down Jean's telepathy because she could not even LEARN to control it for years.

when ororo developed her powers how was it described? and the scan wg posted does demonstrate there are similarities but again it only supports it being similar in that concentration is required

[JeanGreyForever]

Wouldn't it be easier to ask someone this question like Coates or Claremont?

[butterflykyss]

Wouldn't it be easier to ask someone this question like Coates or Claremont?

Claremont would be the better person in my opinion.. now what say you my friend? have you come to a conclusion?

[rutog98]

Wouldn't it be easier to ask someone this question like Coates or Claremont?

Claremont would be a better person to ask. Coates may not know or understand all of the intricacies of Ororo's powers that Butterflykyss and I are touching on.

[The Weather God]

I would not say that she could not establish a bond with them, rather that she hit some resistance and was able to overcome that resistance with the strength of her will. Telekinetics, on the other hand, must grab an object with their psychokinetic powers in order to move them. Storm does not work that way. She does so through her willpower and strength of body. Hence, her powers are never described as working the same way as a TP/TK.

I don't believe I said they worked the same as TP or TK though. I said they worked in a similar fashion and I provided evidence of Storm admitting it herself.

I don't agree. It isn't dependent on her bond with the atmosphere. The bond/link is an entirely seperate application and is one aspect that makes her control so perfect and refined. I view her energy sight as a seperate application as well.

1.) Yea from the scans I provided she does have the ability to block or allow certain light requencies but beyond that she doesn't. In the case of sound she was able to make her shield thicker to keep it from getting out or in but that is not something she directly is manipulating such as the light frequency.

2.)Cool and fair enough. I haven't had issue with some saying their are similarities but I still wholeheartedly disagree that the use and application of their powers work the same.

I don't think anyone's suggested that they are the same, but I haven't gone over everything I admit. It works the same in the sense that they are both attunned to their psychic mediums at all times, and their powers can react instinctively.

https://preview.ibb.co/eotMaG/Storm_Emma_body_2.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/jo3b9b/Storm_Emma_body_1.jpg

And thanks for the warm welcome from you and Rutog. I really appreciate it and value both your input in these discussions.

[rutog98]

Hey, WG, I don't know if you saw this, but look at how little control Jean had over her powers when her powers first manifested. She could not shut out the thoughts of other people instinctively and it was destroying her:



Now, look at the extraoridinary control Storm had over her powers from day 1 (Keep in mind in Jean's case, it was over a period of time and she still could not figure out how to control her TP):

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/nOTSPnLQICf...IJnzkaeg=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/iHKVngKAqal...Addx2HKg=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/zLi1xRnJrQZ...IwgUGrfQ=s1600

To make this more impressive, she shut that storm down which is more impressive than creating them as shown in Uncanny X-Men #151.

Then, the very next day, she instinctively knows how to shape the winds to fly and has the fine-tune control over her powers to flatten everyone on the battlefield save T'challa with her powers:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/N712d39NduY...c3mpskkw=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/JToakUtsVgO...TgzNUtZw=s1600

Note also the precise aim of her lightning bolt to destroy the gun, but not kill the man holding the weapon.

[JeanGreyForever]

Claremont would be the better person in my opinion.. now what say you my friend? have you come to a conclusion?

I'm still reading through all the posts lol. There are so many and they go back almost for days lol. Not really, but it feels that way.

Claremont would be a better person to ask. Coates may not know or understand all of the intricacies of Ororo's powers that Butterflykyss and I are touching on.

He's the current writer which is why I listed him as well, but I agree that Claremont would be better since he developed her most.

[butterflykyss]

I don't believe I said they worked the same as TP or TK though. I said they worked in a similar fashion and I provided evidence of Storm admitting it herself.

I don't agree. It isn't dependent on her bond with the atmosphere. The bond/link is an entirely seperate application and is one aspect that makes her control so perfect and refined. I view her energy sight as a seperate application as well.







I don't think anyone's suggested that they are the same, but I haven't gone over everything I admit. It works the same in the sense that they are both attunned to their psychic mediums at all times, and their powers can react instinctively.

https://preview.ibb.co/eotMaG/Storm_Emma_body_2.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/jo3b9b/Storm_Emma_body_1.jpg

And thanks for the warm welcome from you and Rutog. I really appreciate it and value both your input in these discussions.

you know i have been looking for these scans of the acid rain to demonstrate her powers don't work like a telepath or telekinitetic.

after going back the argument has hinged around focus being required for both and the way in which they manipulate their respective energies being the same. rut and I have argued and acknowledged concentration is required in some instances but they have been times where the elements have responded to her without her direct influence and others where she was denied because her link had been severed. Also we've argued the connection to the elements she manipulates is quite different from a connection between a telepath/telekinetic and the object they are working to control.

you are very welcome. you are a much respected member of this community and that means a lot. please post more and try not to be gone so long.

[rutog98]

you know i have been looking for these scans if the acid rain to demonstrate her powers don't work like a telepath or telekinitetic.

after going back the argument has hinged around focus being required for both and the way in which they manipulate their respective energies being the same. rut and I have argued and acknowledged concentration is required in some instances but they have been times where the elements have responded to her without her direct influence and others where she was denied because her link had been severed. Also we've argued the connection to the elements she manipulates is quite different from a connection between a telepath/telekinetic and the object they are working to control.

you are very welcome. you are a much respected member of this community and that means a lot. please post more and try not to be gone so long.

Agreed. You hear that, Weather God, you've been sorely missed.

That said, when the new Storm solo breaks, I think WG will be posting here much more frequently as it will give us all some very new material to discuss!