Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[rutog98]

Likewise, anything good Guggenheim does with Storm in this upcoming Gold issue I will use, but I will discredit and discard the PIS moments.

[Stormrocks]

I can't believe I am typing this, but like Guggs, that is one of m favorite issues of the X-Men. I really like the story and the sense of teamwork that issue had. How they ended with the hands together, it really seemed like not just a team, but family.

[PattiLaBelleStormfan]

I can't believe I am typing this, but like Guggs, that is one of m favorite issues of the X-Men. I really like the story and the sense of teamwork that issue had. How they ended with the hands together, it really seemed like not just a team, but family.

I enjoyed it too, actually. I agree. It was a fun read for the most part. The thing is Lobdell was a good writer. It was just too bad he didn't care for Storm lol.

[rutog98]

I enjoyed it too, actually. I agree. It was a fun read for the most part. The thing is Lobdell was a good writer. It was just too bad he didn't care for Storm lol.

I agree that Lobdell is one of the better X-Men writers. Its just his prejudice towards Ororo, for whatever his reasons were, colors his run for me. I treat him as I do all writers, however, you take the good moments and disregard the PIS instances.

@Omegarogue

If you mean to tell me that Polaris took on Vulcan in a one-on-one fight and nearly beat him head-on, then that story is completely PIS. Again, Polaris doesn't compare to Emma in terms of power and neither does a non-PF Jean Grey. Anyway, I'm ready to take you on in an "Emma vs. Jean: Who's the superior telepath" debate whenever you want. We can create a thread and title it just that. Don't expect to win if we go at it. I will not allow any moments where Jean is boosted by the Phoenix Force or by the addition of Psylocke's telepathy to her own into the debate. Jean will be stuck with her own natural power levels unenhanced by any external source like Cerebro, another telepath's powers added to her own, the Phoenix Force, or any other such nonsense.

[LordAllMIghty]

Trying to play catch up...you guys have been busy.

yall have fun with the next issue of gold. and y'all really believe marvel sees her as their WW?? preview from Xmen 20:



is storm breathing? are energies radiating around her? then why on earth is she powerless?? y'all have fun with this trash and this is why that annual read hollow to me.

So sick of the current writer of Gold.

[Ororo101]

Because the issue stated in plain English that's what Ororo did. I take the good and leave the bad. Where the issue weakens Ororo, I use other stories to discredit that and where the issue gives Storm her due, I keep.

Here, Xavier telepathically forces Sienna's powers to build to its ultimate until it explodes out of her like a bomb:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9eqamBVTsZ...c42/RCO041.jpg

Here, we see it stated plainly that Storm is using her electrically-charged wind tunnel to redirect Sienna's powers upward after Xavier forced Blaze to violently unleash all of her power at once:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uL9m2kCwz6...c42/RCO042.jpg

Notice how afterwards, as the trio had planned, Sienna's powers are temporarily burned out after such an exertion. She can barely stand or speak and she lacks the power to throw another blast:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3MLM7H_yBn...c42/RCO043.jpg

So, there you go!

See the only problem with that though is that you are accepting the writer and the words they use as law in one section of a book i.e. Siena Blaze self proclaiming aloud that she has the power to "split the earth like a ripe melon", not allowing room for any possibility of metaphor or even exaggeration which people do all the time when they talk, and then at the same time completely dismiss Professor X and Cyclops's conversation about Ororo's powers in another section of the same book. I can even see how you could remain as adamant about the situation if the text that inferred the ripe melon analogy was a dialogue box that Lobdell himself used to explain the situation, from the unbiased viewpoint of a narrator. But it wasn't. It was the raving monologue of a woman with power to expel great discharges of electromagnetic energy. Which can have devastating effects on local ecosystems and tear large sections of Earth's EM field, no doubt. But to claim that she would have the power to do split the earth in half, a feat that Magneto, unaided would have much difficulty with if he could at all, is something that I will not be taking at face value. Not everything stated in text by a character is valid, as you have no problem pointing out in the case of Cyclops and Professor X. It just comes across as mildly hypocritical and takes away at times from the validity of your arguments.


This is not even to say by the way that I agree with Lobdell's absurd description of how Ororo's body handles extreme temperature fluctuations. It's still absolute rubbish. I just think that we know by now that writers' credibility are often very questionable when it comes to comic book situations. We KNOW that very well after the last decade or so of dealing with a Storm who is a shadow of her former self. To claim a writer's dialogue as verbatim on one page when it suits your case and then as rubbish on the next when it doesn't, with no room for question or interpretational differences will not always work, and may come across as transparent to some people.

[Ororo101]

Also for anyone interested, this was the missing middle page of the three I posted before in regards to Storm's mini story at the end of Gold's Annual.

[rutog98]

See the only problem with that though is that you are accepting the writer and the words they use as law in one section of a book i.e. Siena Blaze self proclaiming aloud that she has the power to "split the earth like a ripe melon", not allowing room for any possibility of metaphor or even exaggeration which people do all the time when they talk, and then at the same time completely dismiss Professor X and Cyclops's conversation about Ororo's powers in another section of the same book. I can even see how you could remain as adamant about the situation if the text that inferred the ripe melon analogy was a dialogue box that Lobdell himself used to explain the situation, from the unbiased viewpoint of a narrator. But it wasn't. It was the raving monologue of a woman with power to expel great discharges of electromagnetic energy. Which can have devastating effects on local ecosystems and tear large sections of Earth's EM field, no doubt. But to claim that she would have the power to do split the earth in half, a feat that Magneto, unaided would have much difficulty with if he could at all, is something that I will not be taking at face value. Not everything stated in text by a character is valid, as you have no problem pointing out in the case of Cyclops and Professor X. It just comes across as mildly hypocritical and takes away at times from the validity of your arguments.


This is not even to say by the way that I agree with Lobdell's absurd description of how Ororo's body handles extreme temperature fluctuations. It's still absolute rubbish. I just think that we know by now that writers' credibility are often very questionable when it comes to comic book situations. We KNOW that very well after the last decade or so of dealing with a Storm who is a shadow of her former self. To claim a writer's dialogue as verbatim on one page and then as rubbish on the next, with no room for question or interpretational differences will not always work.

1) I dismiss the Cyclops and Xavier conversation in the same book because there is a TON of other canon out there that refutes what they said. For the sake of this issue, Storm's powers worked exactly how Xavier said it did. However, that is not the case for all Storm stories and other writers have had a different take on her powers. I don't sit around and just call things PIS randomly because I don't like it. When I call something PIS, its because there are other stories that show Storm to be stronger than what said issue has claimed.

2) Regarding the Blaze thing, she is every bit as powerful as she claimed to be. Notice how the team was fearful of her being able to toss another blast. This is not some empty boast about her power. Furthermore, the issue stated that Sienna's powers were, "...similar in effect, if not in origins to the power of the Phoenix!" as revealed in the scan below:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dNEMCTh2Tw...c42/RCO014.jpg

Also, if you read the panel where she talks about how powerful she is, she is speaking very casually and very sanely:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r_zATjnVV1...c42/RCO038.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-n9w6z_1eeR...c42/RCO039.jpg

In her very next appearance, Excalibur issue 73, she attempts to kill Nightcrawler by CASUALLY throwing a blast powerful enough to fry Kurt to a crisp with enough power left over to sink Muir Island and half of Scotland Mainland:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/Y5P10_XkcCy...ov9HFslY=s1600

She casually tossed off this blast, in other words, she didn't exert any strain whatsoever to throw a blast this powerful at NC and her only aim was to kill him. So, this blast was nowhere near her full power...which it wouldn't be seeing as how she is strong enough to split the planet like a ripe melon.

3) Sienna has far more raw power than Magneto. He isn't even on the map where her power is concerned. Trying to limit Sienna Blaze by trying to prop up Magneto is silly. The lady is exactly as powerful as she claims to be. Its obvious from everything the issue stated and her following appearance in Excalibur that she's not bragging about her power levels, rather Blaze is just telling it like it is about how powerful she is in a matter-of-fact way.

[rutog98]

Oh, and one more thing, the blast Sienna casually and easily tossed at NC (the blast strong enough to fry him to a crisp with enough power left over to sink Muir Island and half of Scotland Mainland) with no strain whatsoever would be a tickle compared to the blast Storm redirected. This claim is true since Xavier telepathically forced Sienna to unleash every ounce of power she had in one single, violent outburst (which Ororo redirected with her winds) which left Blaze temporarily burned out/depleted of power.

[butterflykyss]

Well although I understand the discomfort of some because Storm can not access their powers, with a somewhat illogical excuse, but we must see the positive side, Storm is an excellent physical fighter, and we rarely see her since she does not need Use this because with her powerset she do not have to use these skills.

There is no positive side. When writers continue to incorrectly justify her not in having her powers in the way that they do it creates the belief that this is how her powers work. This is especially damaging for readers not familiar with her powers and not well-versed on what Claremont established years ago. If writers want to show her being badass H2H you can do this and she still have her powers. Xmen World Apart did a good job with this as well as when Emma/Ororo had to fight a power dampening monster. These are respectable ways you can show this without this beyond tired "there is no weather" or "I can't manipulate the weather" garbage Guggs, Aaron and others have utilized over the years.

Okay guys here's my take on #20 coming up. I could potentially be okay with Storm not being able to control the planets weather IF and ONLY IF there was a damned good reason. Like, for instance, if somehow this planet was "sentient" it could very well "resist" her control which would make sense as to why she isn't able to manipulate it. If the planet is magical in origin than that is another good reason as magic has always messed with Storm's powers. Even under Claremont's era. But this is Guggenheim so the best explanation we'll probably get was in that very first page which simply stated "I can't control it". And that I take issue with. At least think this out and make it a compelling reason or answer. Even with the issue under Aaron in Hell where she couldn't utilize her powers. Thought it wasn't explicitly stated, it could easily be deduced that there was a magic element present preventing her from using her powers. That's what I tell myself to ease the pain. He didn't have her say there wasn't any weather. He had her say It's LIKE there's no weather. Sooooo yeah lol. Sometimes I take a yard from an inch because the inch is just too painful sometimes to accept.

I'm very familiar with this PIS story. I have battled many a Storm-hater/detractor over this issue in my day. I've had to discredit this story so many times its not even funny. It's suspicious that Guggenheim is using this issue as a model to tell his "Storm story" in Gold.

The thing is why was Storm able to use on the planet at all once they arrived to the negative zone? Guggs didn't show her having issue with using her powers or needing to attune with the planet. Also, though I agree a "sentient" planet may be "out" Ororo has already established as of BP 17 that she can control sentient storms as well. I don't think the storm being magically based would be necessarily a good out as Rut mentioned Storm was able to overtake Shaman's magically based storm ions ago. I'm curious to see what the reason will be but I'm pretty sure based upon Guggs track record it won't be anything that is consistent with canon with how her powers should work.

And yet you love to quote this issue for the Blaze redirect....

claws are out!!!! lol

Trying to play catch up...you guys have been busy.



So sick of the current writer of Gold.

LOLOL yes we have and I am very sick of the gold writer too. It's gotten beyond the territory of ridiculous.

See the only problem with that though is that you are accepting the writer and the words they use as law in one section of a book i.e. Siena Blaze self proclaiming aloud that she has the power to "split the earth like a ripe melon", not allowing room for any possibility of metaphor or even exaggeration which people do all the time when they talk, and then at the same time completely dismiss Professor X and Cyclops's conversation about Ororo's powers in another section of the same book. I can even see how you could remain as adamant about the situation if the text that inferred the ripe melon analogy was a dialogue box that Lobdell himself used to explain the situation, from the unbiased viewpoint of a narrator. But it wasn't. It was the raving monologue of a woman with power to expel great discharges of electromagnetic energy. Which can have devastating effects on local ecosystems and tear large sections of Earth's EM field, no doubt. But to claim that she would have the power to do split the earth in half, a feat that Magneto, unaided would have much difficulty with if he could at all, is something that I will not be taking at face value. Not everything stated in text by a character is valid, as you have no problem pointing out in the case of Cyclops and Professor X. It just comes across as mildly hypocritical and takes away at times from the validity of your arguments.


This is not even to say by the way that I agree with Lobdell's absurd description of how Ororo's body handles extreme temperature fluctuations. It's still absolute rubbish. I just think that we know by now that writers' credibility are often very questionable when it comes to comic book situations. We KNOW that very well after the last decade or so of dealing with a Storm who is a shadow of her former self. To claim a writer's dialogue as verbatim on one page when it suits your case and then as rubbish on the next when it doesn't, with no room for question or interpretational differences will not always work, and may come across as transparent to some people.

I agree. I think the explanation of her being "immune" to cold/heat was stupid and not canonically sound so I ignore it all.

[PattiLaBelleStormfan]

There is no positive side. When writers continue to incorrectly justify her not in having her powers in the way that they do it creates the belief that this is how her powers work. This is especially damaging for readers not familiar with her powers and not well-versed on what Claremont established years ago. If writers want to show her being badass H2H you can do this and she still have her powers. Xmen World Apart did a good job with this as well as when Emma/Ororo had to fight a power dampening monster. These are respectable ways you can show this without this beyond tired "there is no weather" or "I can't manipulate the weather" garbage Guggs, Aaron and others have utilized over the years.





The thing is why was Storm able to use on the planet at all once they arrived to the negative zone? Guggs didn't show her having issue with using her powers or needing to attune with the planet. Also, though I agree a "sentient" planet may be "out" Ororo has already established as of BP 17 that she can control sentient storms as well. I don't think the storm being magically based would be necessarily a good out as Rut mentioned Storm was able to overtake Shaman's magically based storm ions ago. I'm curious to see what the reason will be but I'm pretty sure based upon Guggs track record it won't be anything that is consistent with canon with how her powers should work.



claws are out!!!! lol



LOLOL yes we have and I am very sick of the gold writer too. It's gotten beyond the territory of ridiculous.



I agree. I think the explanation of her being "immune" to cold/heat was stupid and not canonically sound so I ignore it all.

That actually was Astonishing X-Men and you're right it was a cool run. But in Gold #20 They're on another planet now.

[rutog98]

Again, when I read comics, I take the good and leave the PIS. In Unlimited issue 1, there was some (okay, a lot) of PIS where Storm was concerned, and there are other stories out there to discredit those PIS instances with the character. However, there was also some good in the story as well that can be used. The story established Sienna Blaze to be a world destroyer in terms of power and Storm redirected her full power. So, the issue is not a total loss. There are salvageable moments in the book to make it worth referencing for Storm fans. If Storm detractors try to bring up the PIS material in that book to use against Storm fans, then we have a treasure trove of canon out there to refute the PIS instances in the book. Overall, this issue is a win for Storm fans since the PIS stuff can be easily swept away while we can still use the good part with her redirecting the full power of Sienna Blaze.

This is the case with some of the old Claremontian stories as well when Storm is scaled back, for instance, to prop up Magneto. In those Storm/Magneto fights, while there is some PIS being used to weaken Ororo to give Magneto a chance to beat her, there are other things that can be taken from those stories. An instance of this would be when her winds were shown to be much stronger than the combined force of Cyclops's blasts, Colossus's super strength, and Wolverine's claws when together, those three could not even scratch Magneto's shields, then Storm comes along and summons winds strong enough to smash his force-field and place an unbearable strain on his powers. Sure, there was some PIS in that story to weaken Ororo for the sake of Magneto so he could get the upper hand on her, but those instances are to be disregarded where Storm's powers were concerned. There are other stories that refute how Storm was written down in those PIS instances in this story, but the issue did give us a gem to take away from the whole thing. The same thing holds true with Unlimited issue 1.

[yogaflame]

claws are out!!!! lol

I agree. I think the explanation of her being "immune" to cold/heat was stupid and not canonically sound so I ignore it all.

You have no idea of how much restraint I typically show...

I agree, though, in all seriousness, about X-Men Unlimited #1. Sienna Blaze and the rest of the Upstarts were a flash in the pan. No one cares about them or their powers. Lobdell displayed a nauseating amount of ignorance concerning Storm's powers in that issue, so I just discard the whole thing. Storm would never burn up in the cold. I don't care who's been blasting through the EM fields. And why not just have Charles take Blaze out telepathically if she's such a threat? If he can go in her head to amp her powers to full charge, why not just go in her head and turn her powers off?

This was when Bachelo's art was still decipherable, and I will thank him for the only attempt I can recall of any artist/colorist team to actually show the multicolored patterns of energy Ororo perceives when she uses her powers(properly realized onscreen, this is the greatest visual no one has ever done before, just waiting to be unveiled), but that's about as far as I will go in complimenting this issue, even if it was the first comic book I ever read(I bought this and Uncanny #201 in my very first visit to a comic shop).

[rutog98]

You have no idea of how much restraint I typically show...

I agree, though, in all seriousness, about X-Men Unlimited #1. Sienna Blaze and the rest of the Upstarts were a flash in the pan. No one cares about them or their powers. Lobdell displayed a nauseating amount of ignorance concerning Storm's powers in that issue, so I just discard the whole thing. Storm would never shiver in the cold. I don't care who's been blasting through the EM fields. And why not just have Charles take Blaze out telepathically if she's such a threat? If he can go in her head to amp her powers to full charge, why not just go in her head and turn her powers off?

This was when Bachelo's art was still decipherable, and I will thank him for the only attempt I can recall of any artist/colorist team to actually show the multicolored patterns of energy Ororo perceives when she uses her powers(properly realized onscreen, this is the greatest visual no one has ever done before, just waiting to be unveiled), but that's about as far as I will go in complimenting this issue, even if it was the first comic book I ever read(I bought this and Uncanny #201 in my very first visit to a comic shop).

You raise some good points, here. Yeah, this shows how bad of a writer Lobdell is when you have all of these plotholes in his stories (also, how in the world is Ororo shivering in the cold if she the same issue says she's supposed to get warmer when it gets colder? Boy am I glad all writers ignore this aspect of this story...I hope Guggenheim does the same...). However, in spite of him being a sub par writer, he is still loads better than MOST the x-writers we've had over the last couple of years from Matt Fraction onward.

That said, I still press that in spite of the PIS and plotholes you, me, and others have outlined in all of our past discussions about this issue, there is still a gem to be salvaged from this train wreck of an issue that we Storm fans can use...and I'm gonna use it.

[LordAllMIghty]

If Marvel would just say, "We're now publishing fanfics till we get decent writers on the X-Men".

I would be cool with everythng written for the last year and a half.

What happen to the days when writers knew how to write team books?