Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[rutog98]

I know you believe that because it is what you think. I don't share all of that. The X-office has shown since Gillen that they have no idea what to do with her. They had no long term plans, they still don't.

I know, because if they get an idea, they give it to Jean (X-Men Red) or try and prop up Kitty. I mean, even if you are right and they simply don't know what to do with her, if they were seriously making an effort, they could at least give her her mental defenses against psis (how in the world did Mesmero trick Storm's mind given all of her mental defenses, for instance? Oh, that's right, the stripped that away from the character) and allow her to use her powers creatively while giving her some nice feats every now and then. To be honest, that should be the bare minimum, but they don't even do that! That just goes to show they are not even trying to make an effort with the character in order to prop up lesser teammates.

[rutog98]

Nothing is going on with that though. Her Goddesshood is a hint, a shadow, with not enough development to count for much. She shut down a portal, did a light show, Coates has to do a better job of putting some meat on them bones.

I agree with this in terms of feats. Coates needs to have her do something more than what she has done, however, he did add on this other dimension to Ororo's "goddess" aspect that Guggenheim could have used in his story instead of that blasted hammer!

[rutog98]

There is an upside to using Caster the fact you can't even see that is disappointing.

Do you know what a plot device is??

1) Of course I know what a plot device is. It's insulting for you to ask the question (which was your intent), and I am not going to stoop to respond in kind.

2) There is no upside to anything where Storm's natural power levels are played down in order to prop something else up like Stormcaster. That is a total and complete deal-breaker for me.

[Chaos Reigns]

I know, because if they get an idea, they give it to Jean (X-Men Red) or try and prop up Kitty. I mean, even if you are right and they simply don't know what to do with her, if they were seriously making an effort, they could at least give her her mental defenses against psis (how in the world did Mesmero trick Storm's mind given all of her mental defenses, for instance? Oh, that's right, the stripped that away from the character) and allow her to use her powers creatively while giving her some nice feats every now and then. To be honest, that should be the bare minimum, but they don't even do that! That just goes to show they are not even trying to make an effort with the character in order to prop up lesser teammates.

The problem is Ororo isn't even in Jean's book and isn't written to prop her up. The idea they gave to Jean was never going to be Storm's any way.

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

Which she should have been able to do under her own power especially given what's going on in BP regarding her "goddesshood". Storm has always wielded the power of a "goddess" from the start and now Coates has officially established her being a "goddess". This Stormcaster bit is an attempt to strip that specialness away from Storm and make it all about a hammer.

I actually disagree about her normal power being able to put a God to his knees, yes Coates is developing her Goddesshood but not in a way that makes her 10x more powerful like Stormcaster does. So far under Coates she's been able to overpower a God's control over the weather and Guggs made her do something similar without Stormcaster, the only thing the hammer does is augment her power and physicals. Basically what I'm saying is her having Stormcaster doesn't take away from the development Coates is doing, Guggs is not trying to ascend her to a Goddess, he's just finally giving something for Storm to do, they're completely different.

[rutog98]

I actually disagree about her normal power being able to put a God to his knees, yes Coates is developing her Goddesshood but not in a way that makes her 10x more powerful like Stormcaster does. So far under Coates she's been able to overpower a God's control over the weather and Guggs made her do something similar without Stormcaster, the only thing the hammer does is augment her power and physicals. Basically what I'm saying is her having Stormcaster doesn't take away from the development Coates is doing, Guggs is not trying to ascend her to a Goddess, he's just finally giving something for Storm to do, they're completely different.

Storm has the feats to put a "god" on his knees and has done so already. What I am saying is going by Storm's past feats and the fact that she has long been established to have "goddess-level" powers, Stormcaster flies in the face of all of that.

@Stormphoenix, do you see why now I include scans in my posts to you and other Storm fans? You thought I was insulting your knowledge base about Ororo, but I do it for the sake of other posters who are reading the debate to illustrate what I am saying about Ororo's power levels so that all can see very clearly.

[stormphoenix]

I actually disagree about her normal power being able to put a God to his knees, yes Coates is developing her Goddesshood but not in a way that makes her 10x more powerful like Stormcaster does. So far under Coates she's been able to overpower a God's control over the weather and Guggs made her do something similar without Stormcaster, the only thing the hammer does is augment her power and physicals. Basically what I'm saying is her having Stormcaster doesn't take away from the development Coates is doing, Guggs is not trying to ascend her to a Goddess, he's just finally giving something for Storm to do, they're completely different.

I take my statement back....I agree 100%.

1) Of course I know what a plot device is. It's insulting for you to ask the question (which was your intent), and I am not going to stoop to respond in kind.

2) There is no upside to anything where Storm's natural power levels are played down in order to prop something else up like Stormcaster. That is a total and complete deal-breaker for me.

I'm not trying to insult you, and BELIEVE me if I REALLY REALLY wanted to insult you? I would have done it the moment I met you.

That's fine that only effects YOU. Just because you can't get pass the fact using StormCaster to do some cool feats does NOT undermine Storm in ANYWAY.

[rutog98]

I'm kinda on the fence with that. I mean Scythian survived a Black Hole Storm's earthly Lighting may not help, but her Cosmic Lighting could probably do some damage. And I agree with your statement.


I'm not trying to insult you, and BELIEVE me if I REALLY REALLY wanted to insult you? I would have done it the moment I met you.

That's fine that only effects YOU. Just because you can't get pass the fact using StormCaster to do some cool feats does NOT undermine Storm in ANYWAY.

1) Storm doesn't need to tap into the cosmos to hurt "god-level" characters. When she blew up Stardust, a herald of Galactus, she stole electrons from Stardust's body and sent them back with enough force to de-atomize her. She did not tap into the cosmos for the energy for such an attack. In other words, if she can hurl electrons with that much force, it would not matter whether or not she was on Earth or someplace else. Also, her lightning bolts have always been FAR more powerful than natural Earth lightning whether she is on or off-world. Human Torch, in the same issue, when imbued with the power of Silver Surfer could not approach the damage Storm did to Stardust and neither could Beta Ray Bill whose powers equals Thor's.

2) Actually, it affects more than me, hence there are other Stormfans compaining as well. Furthermore, the abilities Stormcaster may potentially wield can be accomplished with Storm's elemental powers if properly developed. Let's look at Mjolnir and assume that Stormcaster has the same exact powers:

A) Mjolnir gives its wielder superstrength and durability. Storm can imitate superstrength feats with her winds and has plenty of wind feats to prove this. Who cares about throwing a superpunch when Storm can generate winds with even greater force and blanket an entire battlefield with those winds? She can also harness her powers creatively for defensive purposes as well to deflect incoming attacks, so she doesn't need Thor-like physical strength and durability as her elemental powers can substitute for that. We have seen her deflect Cyclop's optic blasts, telekinesis, EM energy, sound, and probably more if I thought about it.

B) Another ability Mjolnir has is the power to open up interdimensional portals. Storm controls the energy that composes empty space. We saw her sew a reality back together when it was coming apart at its seems. Such an ability to control the energy that composes empty space could easily be developed to open up interdimensional portals. Heck, a non 616 Storm was able to use her energy sight which allows her to perceive the universe around her as patterns of energy and replicate what she observes to observe/study the energy matrix of a time portal and then create her own time portal back in time to the exact year and day of the portal she saw to follow people back through the time stream. We have already seen on panel that 616 Storm can get attuned to the time stream, so this would not be a stretch for her powers either.

C) Mjolnir has the ability to absorb energy. Well, we have seen Storm channel blizzards through her body as well as the energies of a galactic core. Ororo has also channeled magic of such force and quantity that Magik, a hell lord, could not handle and survive.

Look, anything you think Ororo would gain by using Stormcaster would come at a huge price: her natural elemental powers would be diminished to try and prop up the amplifying affects of that hammer to make it necessary for her to do feats far below what she has been able to do in canon without that hammer. Again, she doesn't need the hammer for anything. All they need to do is develop her elemental powers and have her wield her own natural abilities in more creative fashions.

[stormphoenix]

1) Storm doesn't need to tap into the cosmos to hurt "god-level" characters. When she blew up Stardust, a herald of Galactus, she stole electrons from Stardust's body and sent them back with enough force to de-atomize her. She did not tap into the cosmos for the energy for such an attack. In other words, if she can hurl electrons with that much force, it would not matter whether or not she was on Earth or someplace else. Also, her lightning bolts have always been FAR more powerful than natural Earth lightning whether she is on or off-world. Human Torch, in the same issue, when imbued with the power of Silver Surfer could not approach the damage Storm did to Stardust and neither could Beta Ray Bill whose powers equals Thor's.

2) Actually, it affects more than me, hence there are other Stormfans compaining as well. Furthermore, the abilities Stormcaster may potentially wield can be accomplished with Storm's elemental powers if properly developed. Let's look at Mjolnir and assume that Stormcaster has the same exact powers:

A) Mjolnir gives its wielder superstrength and durability. Storm can imitate superstrength feats with her winds and has plenty of wind feats to prove this. She can also harness her powers creatively for defensive purposes as well to deflect incoming attacks, so she doesn't need Thor-like physical strength and durability as her elemental powers can substitute for that.

B) Another ability Mjolnir has is the power to open up interdimensional portals. Storm controls the energy that composes empty space. We saw her sew a reality back together when it was coming apart at its seems. Such an ability to control the energy that composes empty space could easily be developed to open up interdimensional portals. Heck, a non 616 Storm was able to use her energy sight which allows her to perceive the universe around her as patterns of energy and replicate what she observes to observe/study the energy matrix of a time portal and then create her own time portal back in time to the exact year and day of the portal she saw to follow people back through the time stream. We have already seen on panel that 616 Storm can get attuned to the time stream, so this would not be a stretch for her powers either.

C) Mjolnir has the ability to absorb energy. Well, we have seen Storm channel blizzards through her body as well as the energies of a galactic core. Ororo has also channeled magic of such force and quantity that Magik, a hell lord, could not handle and survive.

Look, anything you think Ororo would gain by using Stormcaster would come at a huge price: her natural elemental powers would be diminished to try and prop up the amplifying affects of that hammer to make it necessary for her to do feats far below what she has been able to do in canon without that hammer. Again, she doesn't need the hammer for anything. All they need to do is develop her elemental powers and have her wield her own natural abilities in more creative fashions.

*Sigh* Sure Dude...whatever.
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[butterflykyss]

I'm glad there seems to be a consensus that stormcaster isn't a good thing for ger. I'm just going to try ignore it. coates shall deliver us from this madness.

[Stormrocks]

I'm glad there seems to be a consensus that stormcaster isn't a good thing for ger. I'm just going to try ignore it. coates shall deliver us from this madness.

I don't see how it could be good for her. Stormcaster was created as a way for Loki to control Storm. The last time she touched it, it warped her mind. Unless they he is going to give us an explanation of why things are different now, it just another example of shit writing from Guggenheim.

[butterflykyss]

I don't see how it could be good for her. Stormcaster was created as a way for Loki to control Storm. The last time she touched it, it warped her mind. Unless they he is going to give us an explanation of why things are different now, it just another example of shit writing from Guggenheim.

all of this but excellent point you made about stormcaster being created as a way to control her. and it's a point I don't think anyone has made. she has been tempted and denied it twice up to this point, so to bring it back now seems odd especially when coates has been doing the goddess thing in his book. I'm entitled to believe this is the result of shit writing too and the fact he wants to tether her to an item meant to control and subjugate her to Loki' s power is an even greater reason as to why this is all bad.

[rutog98]

One thing we can take solace in is if Marvel does indeed go on with a "Storm" solo written by Coates, then his take on her "goddesshood" coming from within her own being will win out over this Stormcaster crap!

[BBeeryan]

I'm glad there seems to be a consensus that stormcaster isn't a good thing for ger. I'm just going to try ignore it. coates shall deliver us from this madness.

Lmao yes! Ignore this madness! If only he could have left Stormcaster out of this story. Like we all acknowledge, Storm didn't do a thing with it that she couldn't do without it. Essentially, Guggenheim and Coates' stories revolve around the very same plot points. They are playing with godly implications as they refer to Storm. Both of their stories hint at Storm's divine power upgrades, but storywise, Storm hasn't done anything on paper that she couldn't do without as I upgrade. The clear and defining differences are astounding tho. As we can all agree, Coates has been going out of his way to write her in character for MONTHS. Storm is the ultimate powerhouse is BP. She is the final show to drop. And her divine power comes from within. It's internal power that's been there from the beginning. On the other hand, Uncle Guggy has gone out of his way to write out of character this entire series until now. Her access to divine power is something that comes from an external source. And even with this power, she still isn't the street sweeper that she should be. She didn't even put the big bad down as she should have. Coates brings her in to put a stop to everyone. She is the uber powerhouse that no one messes with in BP.

[CRaymond]

When I read "she becomes a literal goddess" I assumed it was an actual Anatomy Lesson reveal where something happens that causes the truth to be revealed: Xavier mindwiped and rebuilt the memories of an actual African goddess into becoming a mutant heroine. "Ororo Munro" is a lie, and Ororo, Kenyan Goddess of the Storm is the truth.