Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[butterflykyss]

Your statement is missing a lot of facts and context.

1) The reason I hate Jean is because of what Marvel does to Storm everytime she and Jean are put on the same team. They write Storm down to prop Jean up. This has been an unbroken pattern for decades, and I'm sick of it.

2) I have stated repeatedly that Marvel should write both Storm AND Jean well. The reason they don't, however, is because Storm is a threat to the primacy of Jean Grey. Marvel prefers Jean, but readers by and large prefer a well-written Storm over a well-written Jean, hence we get this decades-old pattern of scaling back Ororo whenever she is put on the same team as Jean Grey.

3) While I have not bought a single issue of Red, I have read every single issue for free, so, I know what is going on in that title. If Marvel wants me to buy the book, then they need to write Storm well and have her do some great stuff in there. Marvel's fallacy is they are trying to pin all hopes of the book's success on Jean's character, and the book is sinking faster than the Titanic because no matter how well she is written (and Jean is being written very well in the title), Jean has never connected well with nearly enough readers to maintain high sales.

Let me ask this. Has there ever been an issue from the past that you can recall where the both were written well in your opinion?

[rutog98]

I haven't liked much of what Marvel has done with Ororo for many moons, now. But at the end of the day this is the Storm appreciation thread, not the bitch about what they aren't doing with Storm thread. Celebrate her old stories, or invent your own new content if you must, but I am tired of seeing all this crap about Jean in here.

I hear what you are saying. I just tend to harp on about it because Jean has been a major reason why Storm has been scaled back for decades in the x-books whenever they share the same roster. It's a shame that Marvel does this, too, since the two of them could have great character interactions together with them supposedly being such close friends. However, this devaluing of Storm to prop up the other takes away from everything for so many of us Storm fans.

[yogaflame]

I agree but I think it's fair to express frustrations especially when it's relevant to current solicits or issues that are released. These conversations are not incessant meant to trash her and only pop up when Ororo has been lowballed relative to Jean. The latest discussion is based upon those solicits. All in all, I think it's acceptable to have these conversations of frustrations because if not here then where?

We've had mods in here before saying the exact same things I was saying. Appreciate Storm in this thread. It's one thing to let off a little steam every once in a while, but when it's pages and pages of bitching about something we can not change at all, it becomes tiresome and accomplishes nothing. If you need to vent some frustrations, do a few sets in the gym or take a hike through nature.

[Havok83]

Yes, it's an unused page from the early 00's Coipel and Claremont run of Uncanny, just before House of M and just before Storm was married off to BP.

thanks. Its lovely. Id love to see him draw for the X-line again

I hear what you are saying. I just tend to harp on about it because Jean has been a major reason why Storm has been scaled back for decades in the x-books whenever they share the same roster. It's a shame that Marvel does this, too, since the two of them could have great character interactions together with them supposedly being such close friends. However, this devaluing of Storm to prop up the other takes away from everything for so many of us Storm fans.

they havent been in a book together since Claremont's UXM almost 2 decades ago. Whats been the excuse for Storm being scaled back and the poor writing for her prior to Red?

[rutog98]

Let me ask this. Has there ever been an issue from the past that you can recall where the both were written well in your opinion?

There was the story where Phoenix Force Jean Grey and Storm both fought Magneto and Storm was shown as being the more powerful of the two. Of course, Phoenix Force Jean Grey was scaled down in that story from her cosmic power levels to only rival's Xavier's powers in order to prop up Magneto as a threat. Storm lost to Magneto in that issue only because she held back, otherwise, as Magneto admitted, Storm would have beaten him. Outside of that instance (and maybe a few other one-offs), whenever Storm and Jean are on the same team, Storm loses her cosmic power levels (this is contant across the board), and her mental defenses are either cut back so badly they barely register, or she has no mental defenses at all. This is also true across the board.

On top of all of this, whenever Storm and Jean are on the same team, we cease to get any forward development of Storm's character. Instead, we get the usual Yukio and rehashed Morlock stuff so that writers can focus on Cyclops/Jean stories that have been told since the late 70s/80s (Phoenix Force, evil clones, kids from the future/alternate time lines, duplicates and evil clones of the kids, love triangles etc).

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

He's definitely one of the best modern Storm artists. It's like Silvestri's Storm.

Loved his and Claremont's run back in the day. Here's an unpublished image of Logan, Ororo, and Brian, censored for smoking.

Oh yeah, I love when artists like them are unapologietic with her eyebrows lol, and love how her hair fully grown looks like a lions mane.

Huh I guess they changed it to a toothpick or something it's just a piece of wood lol got it here in front of me (damn it's been a while since I've opened a real comic book).

[rutog98]

they havent been in a book together since Claremont's UXM almost 2 decades ago. Whats been the excuse for Storm being scaled back and the poor writing for her prior to Red?

What I am saying is this issue with Storm being scaled back for Jean was the case throughout the 90s and early 2000s during Revolution. When Jean was taken off the book, Storm always went up again without exception. After that, when she got married to the Black Panther, the writers started a pattern of always scaling Storm back in the x-titles for some made-up reason about her being under Hudlin's pen. However, that was a complete pack of lies since Wolverine and Rogue have been in the Avengers and X-Men team books at the same time and were written well in each title. This trend with writing Storm badly in the x-books continued even after the break-up of the marriage.

So, I guess the reason the Jean thing irks me the most is because it was always centered on her for decades when Storm was written down. So, eventhough they are doing it again right now in Red as well as Gold, the Jean thing just goes back the furthest, thus I am more sick of it when she's involved.

[butterflykyss]

We've had mods in here before saying the exact same things I was saying. Appreciate Storm in this thread. It's one thing to let off a little steam every once in a while, but when it's pages and pages of bitching about something we can not change at all, it becomes tiresome and accomplishes nothing. If you need to vent some frustrations, do a few sets in the gym or take a hike through nature.

I love that scan.. that is one that i use to support what coates made canon which is ororo being a real goddess!!

and I realize what you are saying. this happens across the board in all the forums and not just endemic to this one. I frequent others where posters will gripe about their favorites not being treated fairly. An appreciation thread is where one should appreciate but when you see continual mistreatment of a character it becomes hard to do so, which is where you begin to see the discussion about Jean. I agree with your points but in this case the jean discussion was relevant due to the recent previews and solicits posted. It wasnt as if it was random jean bashing is my only point.

thanks. Its lovely. Id love to see him draw for the X-line again



they havent been in a book together since Claremont's UXM almost 2 decades ago. Whats been the excuse for Storm being scaled back and the poor writing for her prior to Red?

I'm not sure. but Claremont intended for storm to be the most powerful character when she joined. perhaps there was some push to counter that narrative editorial.

[rutog98]

We've had mods in here before saying the exact same things I was saying. Appreciate Storm in this thread. It's one thing to let off a little steam every once in a while, but when it's pages and pages of bitching about something we can not change at all, it becomes tiresome and accomplishes nothing. If you need to vent some frustrations, do a few sets in the gym or take a hike through nature.

Here's the thing: I really want to enjoy comics again. I really want to be able to look forward each month to see what is in store in the titles, however, comics are not fun for me anymore. While I remain a fan of certain characters, I no longer consider myself a comicsbook fan again. I find that reality really sad, to be honest. So, I tend to talk about why the reason for my feeling this way is the case.

Anyway, I think I have ranted enough and made my point.

[Havok83]

What I am saying is this issue with Storm being scaled back for Jean was the case throughout the 90s and early 2000s during Revolution. When Jean was taken off the book, Storm always went up again without exception. After that, when she got married to the Black Panther, the writers started a pattern of always scaling Storm back in the x-titles for some made-up reason about her being under Hudlin's pen. However, that was a complete pack of lies since Wolverine and Rogue have been in the Avengers and X-Men team books at the same time and were written well in each title. This trend with writing Storm badly in the x-books continued even after the break-up of the marriage.

So, I guess the reason the Jean thing irks me the most is because it was always centered on her for decades when Storm was written down. So, eventhough they are doing it again right now in Red as well as Gold, the Jean thing just goes back the furthest, thus I am more sick of it when she's involved.

What I dont get is why you keep saying decades? Jean and Storm only served as X-men together from 1991-1997, 2000-2001, not counting the 70s Phoenix retconned stuff. Thats about one decade. I think you are overexagerating and misplacing blame when in actuality they havent spent that much time with each other outside of the 90s

There was the story where Phoenix Force Jean Grey and Storm both fought Magneto and Storm was shown as being the more powerful of the two. Of course, Phoenix Force Jean Grey was scaled down in that story from her cosmic power levels to only rival's Xavier's powers in order to prop up Magneto as a threat. Storm lost to Magneto in that issue only because she held back, otherwise, as Magneto admitted, Storm would have beaten him. Outside of that instance (and maybe a few other one-offs), whenever Storm and Jean are on the same team, Storm loses her cosmic power levels (this is contant across the board), and her mental defenses are either cut back so badly they barely register, or she has no mental defenses at all. This is also true across the board.

On top of all of this, whenever Storm and Jean are on the same team, we cease to get any forward development of Storm's character. Instead, we get the usual Yukio and rehashed Morlock stuff so that writers can focus on Cyclops/Jean stories that have been told since the late 70s/80s (Phoenix Force, evil clones, kids from the future/alternate time lines, duplicates and evil clones of the kids, etc).

Not really. When both were on the Gold team, Uncanny dealt with 3 issues of the X-Cutioner's song (which dealt with the kid stuff) but that was that. No PF or evil clones of her. None of this stuff was a major part of Scott/Jean's story in the X-men for the remainder of the 90s after that. They had their mini which was outside the main books and did not derail Storm's development in the core titles. Claremont himself, only had one issue of his Revolution run which dealt with the PF.

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

whats the context behind this? Was that supposed to be in an old issue of Uncanny?

It's in issue #448, the next one after Rachel makes a black hole.

[yogaflame]

Oh yeah, I love when artists like them are unapologietic with her eyebrows lol, and love how her hair fully grown looks like a lions mane.

Huh I guess they changed it to a toothpick or something it's just a piece of wood lol got it here in front of me (damn it's been a while since I've opened a real comic book).

Yeah, they made it into a toothpick.

[Ch3rrytop]

LMFAO!! I wonder what it was about Tchalla that has her so gone like Monica sung about back in the day. I can see it now:


**Knock knock***

Tchalla: Who is it?

Violins play and door busts open.

Nakia: Listen boy I'ma rowdy chick
Sometimes I have to fight cause my mouth too slick
Baby why you doin' me like I ain't worth ****
Make me wanna ride past your house and sit
Kick down your doors and smack your chick
Just to show you Nakia not havin' that

Tchalla stands with blank stare lololol..


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Lol . Kyss .. you are too much.

[Devaishwarya]

Seeing as how they are continuing to shuffle their artists after only three issues, maybe...just maybe...we can get Coipel to do an arc on XM:Red once he's done with The Magic Order. Her pony-tail would be GLORIVINE!

[rutog98]

Not really. When both were on the Gold team, Uncanny dealt with 3 issues of the X-Cutioner's song (which dealt with the kid stuff) but that was that. No PF or evil clones of her. None of this stuff was a major part of Scott/Jean's story in the X-men for the remainder of the 90s after that. They had their mini which was outside the main books and did not derail Storm's development in the core titles. Claremont himself, only had one issue of his Revolution run which dealt with the PF.

This is not true, and here are some things to prove I am right:

Everytime you looked up, there was always hints about Jean having this huge potential for power (always that whole Phoenix thing hovering over her) whereas nothing was stated about Storm's enormous potential throughout the 90s and 2000s until X-Treme X-Men. True, we did get some high end feats from Storm (like Alan Davis having Storm defeat the Trion), but Jean was not never on any roster Davis wrote, nor did he have any plans to really use her during his short stint. On top of it, these high end power levels displayed by Storm were quickly forgotten by the next story whereas it has always been a constant theme about Jean's power and potential.

Onslaught approached Jean first because he was really interested in her with all the Phoenix Force stuff. She was the only X-Man he took a real interest in.

Jean was shown as being able to take down Storm in a fight if she wanted to via her telepathy. True, while Storm was shown to be physically more powerful than Jean, it was always made known that Jean would win a fight against Ororo because the writers took away Storm's mental defenses to make her weak against Jean.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ommbU--tL...2/RCO023_w.jpg

Storm has beaten back psychic attacks from psis much more powerful than Jean Grey before and after this, but only when Jean is not on the team with her.

Also, with the whole 12 story arc, it was the members of the Cyclops/Jean clan that Poccy was most interested in. Any member, to be exact, be it X-Man, Cyclops, Jean Grey, etc. Hence, this is how we got Cyclopalypse which led to another Jean-centric story/mini to free Scott from the possession. Furthermore, during the 12 story-arc, we got this 4, 5 or 6-issue mini-series focusing on Scott, Jean, X-Man, and Cable rescuing Nina and Mannites from a Horseman of Apocalypse. So, yeah, the Summer/Grey clan were very prominately featured in this story arc as well.

Also, when X-Man came to the 616 reality and reached out for Jean Grey, he accidently got the psionic ghost of Madelyne Pryor. Subconsciously, he created a psionic shell for her, and she got a body again. Then we got some Jean/Pryor/Cable stuff as well as an extended X-Man/Pryor thing.

Also, there was the constant Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine love triangle going on only to be replaced with the Emma/Scott/Jean love triangle.

Then, during the Kelly/Seagle run, when Jean was supposedly pushing the upper limits of her powers, the writers wanted to restore the Phoenix Force to her, but the editors stopped it at the last minute. But again, you get the picture: it's all about "how powerful Jean is" (like what's going on right now in Red) while Storm, who is far more powerful and has far more potential than Jean, gets ignored in this regard for the most part.

In Age of Apocalypse, it was Jean's TK that kept those bombs at bay. Also, we got X-Man, who was essentially Jean's and Scott's son force grown by Sinister. X-Man being the AOA version of Cable without the techno-virus.

Then we got the whole story where Scott and Jean were sent to the future with Baby Cable, I believe...I forget the name of the mini.

So, yeah, what you just said was completely wrong.

Now, what did Storm get while all of this was going on?

1) We got a couple of rehashed Morlock stories.
2) We saw Yukio make at least once appearance for a story arc or two.
3) We got to see Storm lose virtually all of her mental defenses.
4) She got a massive downgrade in terms of power.